Bloody terrorists

[blue matt]

Likewise a great many of the young angrymen who travel to Syria do so out of a burning hatred caused by civilian casualties in the region more than words written on a page in my opinion.

I disagree, as why are they all Muslim and why do they all Fall in line with Daesh way of thinking ? ? ?

If people were going to syria due to " a burning hatred caused by civilian casualties in the region " then you would see other religions and even the non-religious

[CCFC_Urawa_Reds]

I disagree, as why are they all Muslim and why do they all Fall in line with Daesh way of thinking ? ? ?

If people were going to syria due to " a burning hatred caused by civilian casualties in the region " then you would see other religions and even the non-religious

I'd like to add to that ..... Many go to murder also. Many obviously have homicidal goals and get away with going to another country and killing innocent civilians of other countries (including women and children). Trying to understand these people would be a waste of time .... They are going to release their anger and play out their sick fantasies.

[TH63]

I disagree, as why are they all Muslim and why do they all Fall in line with Daesh way of thinking ? ? ?

If people were going to syria due to " a burning hatred caused by civilian casualties in the region " then you would see other religions and even the non-religious

I suggest you read the link I posted, not all of these guys are Muslim, certainly some of them are Caucasian. The leadership of IS may have some religious motivation, certainly they mis-use it in a way to subjugate their followers and to some extent recruit, but reports tend to indicate that young "fighting age" men are being recruited by friends/family rather than preachers.
We need to understand what motivates these young men to travel half way across the world, to a country they've probably never been to before and then return to kill.
Understand those motivations, and look to address their issues and provide alternatives. Maybe they have nothing to live for, no job, no sense of self worth? By joining IS maybe they feel relevant and a sense of belonging?

In a similar way, we all come together as a group every two weeks to watch 22 men kick a ball around? Why? There is no logical reason for why we do it, but I dare say we all feel that for 90 minutes at least, we belong, we have a common purpose.

Sure, religion has a part to play in the rise of IS, but I think it's just a part, and we need to drill down to find the real reasons for it and cure the disease, not just treat the symptoms.

[Rjk]

I disagree, as why are they all Muslim and why do they all Fall in line with Daesh way of thinking ? ? ?

If people were going to syria due to " a burning hatred caused by civilian casualties in the region " then you would see other religions and even the non-religious

Because the civilians being killed are also largely Muslim , so people who themselves identify as Muslim are likely to be more affected by that, it's probably part of human nature to relate more strongly to people we see asbeing from the same "tribe".
If a plane goes down with 50 Nigerians on board it's fairly big news, if a plane goes down with 40 Nigerians and 10 British it's huge news and it is the same the world over.

Yes religion plays a part in certain aspects, especially suicide bombing, but do you honestly believe that if a completely secular group of people felt threatened and were being killed there would be no resulting terrorism?

Pushing Muslims to the fringes of society alienates them and just leads to more young people going down the dark road that ends up with the deaths of themselves and more innocent people.
I don't think it is constructive to lay the blame at the door of Islam at all, or to demand that moderate Muslims condemn the attacks, it only serves to further marginalise them as a group and make the road to terrorism more likely to fall into.

[TH63]

Because the civilians being killed are also largely Muslim , so people who themselves identify as Muslim are likely to be more affected by that, it's probably part of human nature to relate more strongly to people we see asbeing from the same "tribe".
If a plane goes down with 50 Nigerians on board it's fairly big news, if a plane goes down with 40 Nigerians and 10 British it's huge news and it is the same the world over.

Yes religion plays a part in certain aspects, especially suicide bombing, but do you honestly believe that if a completely secular group of people felt threatened and were being killed there would be no resulting terrorism?

Pushing Muslims to the fringes of society alienates them and just leads to more young people going down the dark road that ends up with the deaths of themselves and more innocent people.
I don't think it is constructive to lay the blame at the door of Islam at all, or to demand that moderate Muslims condemn the attacks, it only serves to further marginalise them as a group and make the road to terrorism more likely to fall into.

Excellent point imho

[TH63]

Looks like they've caught the bomb-maker
http://news.sky.com/

[Rjk]

It's also worth noting that the Islamic religious texts haven't changed in hundreds of years, but it is only in recent years, after the West had (unintentionally) killed millions of Muslims that Islamic terrorism against the West became prevailant.
So while I don't deny that there probably are some Muslims who want to kill people in the West purely because of their religion, I think the numbers of these are historically usually too small to pose any realistic threat, it is only when these numbers are swelled with angry young people that we seem to see terrorism on our shores.

[kingbillyboy]

I suggest you read the link I posted, not all of these guys are Muslim, certainly some of them are Caucasian. The leadership of IS may have some religious motivation, certainly they mis-use it in a way to subjugate their followers and to some extent recruit, but reports tend to indicate that young "fighting age" men are being recruited by friends/family rather than preachers.
We need to understand what motivates these young men to travel half way across the world, to a country they've probably never been to before and then return to kill.
Understand those motivations, and look to address their issues and provide alternatives. Maybe they have nothing to live for, no job, no sense of self worth? By joining IS maybe they feel relevant and a sense of belonging?

In a similar way, we all come together as a group every two weeks to watch 22 men kick a ball around? Why? There is no logical reason for why we do it, but I dare say we all feel that for 90 minutes at least, we belong, we have a common purpose.

Sure, religion has a part to play in the rise of IS, but I think it's just a part, and we need to drill down to find the real reasons for it and cure the disease, not just treat the symptoms.

there are caucasion muslims. religion has nothing to do with the colour of someones skin.

[TH63]

there are caucasion muslims. religion has nothing to do with the colour of someones skin.

I absolutely agree. I'm just pointing this out for the intellectually challenged among us.

[City123]

If they go to Syria then they shouldn't be allowed to return,ever.

What if they go as a charity worker?

[Sir Sidney Ruff-Diamond]

So with governments giving themselves the authority to track our every movement, transactions and correspondence has given absolute control of us without any protection whatsoever.

As Benjamin Franklin (17 January 1706 – 17 April 1790), one of the Founding Fathers of the United States, said


Governments can't have it both ways. Ramming fear of this attack after fear that attack down our throats on a constant daily basis AND do virtually nothing to prevent actual attacks.

My last thought on this are the largely unreported or "in other news" of people dying each day due to government or terrorist violence in response to government violence. For example https://www.iraqbodycount.org
Over half a million of people have died in Iraq due to government and state violence and terrorist violence.

Thirty people died in Belgium yesterday as a result of terrorist violence.

Did you know or even care that a suicide bomber killed at least 60 people and wounded 70 others after ramming his explosives-laden truck into a security checkpoint at one of entrances to the Iraqi city of Hillah, south of Baghdad earlier this month?

The backlash of the Belgium attacks will be more power to governments to control our lives.

Personally I think governments are mostly bought and paid for fascists (please see original definition of fascist) there to rob you with fear of violence against you (taxation). That said, if we do have to have a government (that has more powers than the people who vote it for or operate individually within it - which is bizarre don't you think?) then let's hold them to account.

Politicians and senior government officials MUST go to prison if they don't do they're jobs. Private individuals and directors face gaol time for acts of omission or negligence - so must government officials? Surely that's fair?

And no I'm not a terrorist sympathiser. I'm just someone who is sick of being told lies.

/rant

This.

[Sir Sidney Ruff-Diamond]

Agree with that, but also a sense of being part of a community that is under attack is a huge driver for terrorism.
Suicide bombings I think must have a large element if religion in the thought processes that could lead someone to do that, but many terrorist acts I think are as much about a sense of injustice and revenge than about killing the non believers.

Think of the Norwegian terrorist Anders breivik , he felt his way of life was being taken away by left wing people and immigrants, I don't think he was motivated by scripture.

Likewise a great many of the young angrymen who travel to Syria do so out of a burning hatred caused by civilian casualties in the region more than words written on a page in my opinion.

Imagine England went to war with Wales, and there was massive civilian loss in wales on a daily basis, I have no doubt that some previously right minded welsh people, woukd be motivated to cmittt acts of terrorism against the English in retribution, and it wouldn't be religiously motivated.
So I think religion does pay a big part in this, but it isn't the only driving factor.

Agree.

[Sir Sidney Ruff-Diamond]

53rd most densely populated country? Nah .... Country proper we are probably top 20 (I'm not including European overseas territories such as Bermuda, Jersey, Guernsey, Gibraltar, New Caledonia ..... and places such as The Vatican City, Monaco above us in this list).

Off the top of my head, I could only think of: Bangladesh, India, The Maldives, Japan, South Korea, Holland and Belgium ...... although, looking at the list, I can see that Vietnam and Israel are obvious ones .... while the Philippines is a surprise.

Qatar at 87 .. and Saudi Arabia at 216 ...... 216 !! Both are wealthy arabic countries who are not doing their fair share. Saudi students I speak to openly admit there is so much space for new housing projects. The truth of the matter is, though, for all the brotherhood nonsense ...... The Saudis don't want refugees and migrants. Qatar is a little different, it's population is already half migrant, would it take more?

In Africa, Nigeria and South Africa are both continental powerhouses who 'could' possibly accept migrants and refugees. Although, Nigeria, especially, probably wouldn't want to tip the ethnic balance considering the way Boko Harem are whipping up fanatical sentiment amongst some Muslims.

The truth is (IMHO), nobody wants them. Which is sad. I think countries that can (ie, wealthy countries that aren't TOO much indebted to the banks), should. But obviously women, children, families first, then those confirmed as most likely to contribute to society, such as (and this is just speculative) qualified doctors, nurses, Cardiff City fans, etc. Naturally, all lawyers and politicians should be executed immediately.

[Mrs Steve R]

Anyone see this last night?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-butchers.html

[Sir Sidney Ruff-Diamond]

I'd like to add to that ..... Many go to murder also. Many obviously have homicidal goals and get away with going to another country and killing innocent civilians of other countries (including women and children). Trying to understand these people would be a waste of time .... They are going to release their anger and play out their sick fantasies.

Brigitte Gabriel summed this up perfectly, I think. Probably 99% of muslims are "ordinary" folk. But it's the violent minority that really matter:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s

[Sir Sidney Ruff-Diamond]

Anyone see this last night?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-butchers.html

Was it televised ?

[Mrs Steve R]

Was it televised ?

I watched it on catch-up late last night, I don't know if it was actually broadcast when scheduled because of yesterday's events tbh.

[Rjk]

IMG_20160323_145559.jpg

I found this interesting, a list of terrorism in Europe since the 1970s

[Sir Sidney Ruff-Diamond]

IMG_20160323_145559.jpg

I found this interesting, a list of terrorism in Europe since the 1970s

IRA as the major perps early on. Then who ?

[TruBlue]

I watched it on catch-up late last night, I don't know if it was actually broadcast when scheduled because of yesterday's events tbh.

Yes it was on last night as originally planned. Interesting stuff.

Not sure I'd fancy going to Saudi Arabia. You'd probably be banned from here.....






...Actually it's sounding more appealing.

[lardy]

Good thing we carpet bombed Ireland and put a stop to all that.

[Mrs Steve R]

Yes it was on last night as originally planned. Interesting stuff.

Not sure I'd fancy going to Saudi Arabia. You'd probably be banned from here.....



...Actually it's sounding more appealing.

I would have probably been stoned to death by now, not in a good way either.

[TruBlue]

Good thing we carpet bombed Ireland and put a stop to all that.

[TH63]

IRA as the major perps early on. Then who ?

ETA probably

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Agree with that, but also a sense of being part of a community that is under attack is a huge driver for terrorism.
Suicide bombings I think must have a large element if religion in the thought processes that could lead someone to do that, but many terrorist acts I think are as much about a sense of injustice and revenge than about killing the non believers.

Think of the Norwegian terrorist Anders breivik , he felt his way of life was being taken away by left wing people and immigrants, I don't think he was motivated by scripture.

Likewise a great many of the young angrymen who travel to Syria do so out of a burning hatred caused by civilian casualties in the region more than words written on a page in my opinion.

Imagine England went to war with Wales, and there was massive civilian loss in wales on a daily basis, I have no doubt that some previously right minded welsh people, woukd be motivated to cmittt acts of terrorism against the English in retribution, and it wouldn't be religiously motivated.
So I think religion does pay a big part in this, but it isn't the only driving factor.

That's why I stated that it is part of the problem.