The end of Ken Livingstone

[surge]

I wonder if anyone has gone through all the social media posts of all tory or ukip counsellors to see if anything could be taken out of context?

It has happened several times with UKIP candidates and usually they find far worse ignorance. It has also happened with the comedian who replaced John Stewart which reminded us that you cannot grow as an individual if you are a public person and have a social media account, nor is context in any way important.

I'll let you guess which cult they follow.

There is no cult. I presume you might be talking about the individual who has condemned bigotry and prejudice before it became popular to do so and has announced a review into his own party even though what has sparked this was created by a Jewish writer. His followers may not be whiter than white (neither, probably, is he) but he is been attacked unfairly by those who probably have far more skeletons.

or maybe too many Labour MP's sharing platforms with IS support groups maybe?

One should be allowed to share a platform with someone who you disagree with and be judged on your words and actions rather than who you stood near. Otherwise, we'd never challenge the ideas of extremist preachers in the UK and we'd concentrate on creating martyrs - I have no shared opinions with Nick Griffin but it only takes a few "Dick Griffin" comments on QT to make me want to hear what he actually says.

i) Before the extermination of the Jewish people Hitler planned on creating a Jewish territory and moving all the Jewish people there, and charging them for the pleasure of being treated like prisoners in a compound.
ii) The only time we ever talk about the actions of the Israeli government is after a Palestinian attack and then only to sigh and say they're probably as bad as each other. I wonder why that is?
iii) This has happened in the same week the Conservative London Mayoral candidate wrote a piece about the Labour candidate and employed a picture of a 7/7 London. Such massive ignorance and despicable insensitivity (and from one of the more progressive Tory candidates) is being lost as the media and some of the Labour party act on their own agenda.

[jon1959]

I think that some Labour people have been careless, insensitive and provocative in speaches and on social media and a few have shown that they have anti-semitic views. However, many of the allegations of anti-semitism that are flying around are ludicrous.

This whole issue has been manufactured by the anti-Corbyn Blairites, the Tory press (and the Guardian), the Israeli Embassy and hostile politicians in the run up to elections. The most recent storm is based on isolated tweets from a handful of people from years ago - and some of those have been doctored to create a false impression of what was said.

Although I think Corbyn has been bounced into the enquiry he announced, he has picked two leads who should do a serious job, and hopefully something useful will come out of it. I doubt Cameron will do the same to investigate the bigger problem in his party. Also Ken Livingston is a self-promoting idiot, but he is right to say this is all about closing down opposition to Israeli government policies and kicking Jeremy Corbyn.

I don't normally bother with websites like this one, but I knew Tony Greenstein a very long time ago (he's referenced in the article) and the seeming stitch up of Vicki Kirby (and the David Baddiel confirmation) shocked me. I thought she was one of the genuine anti-semites unearthed through the 'fearless investigation' of Guido Fawkes. Apparently not. Worth a read, at least for a different viewpoint than you will get in any of the national print media.

https://electronicintifada.net/conte...m-crisis/16481

[xsnaggle]

I wonder if anyone has gone through all the social media posts of all tory or ukip counsellors to see if anything could be taken out of context?

do you honestly believe that someone (a lot more than one probably) is not doing exactly that right now/
It's a two way street

[Badly Ironed Shirt]

I don't really know where I stand on this whole anti-semitic shitstorm but the amount of labour mp's who think their job is to sit around on Twitter waiting to be offended by something is quite astounding. It is also incredible how many of them think Ken should be suspended and John Mann should be celebrated for shouting 'nazi sympathiser' in the full glare of the press. Nonsense.

The plp are a complete shambles, no wonder the members went completely against their MPs when electing corbyn. There is an infinite amount of residual bitterness left in the plp about the leadership election.

Some of my family are members, I think my views tend to align more with labour than any other political party but they are a complete rabble at the moment.

We have the NHS in a cash crisis. We have a threat of global terrorism. We have the EU debate, and we have elections on Thursday to determine who runs Wales, Scotland and London.

But, enough of that - let's sling some mud around to see what sticks where. I am, by no means, condoning anti-semitism and yes, it is serious. But there are things happening out there that really are affecting people's daily lives.

[Rjk]

I think people dont want a Muslim Mayor of London and I dont think they want a left wing Muslim MP as Mayor of London, did you watch the clip ?

Anyway lets wait and see what the results are on Thursday and I look forward to the debate you bring should Sadiq Khan win or lose. I guess you'll have different reasons depending on the result

Isn't he way ahead in the polling? It is just desperation from goldsmith, and he will lose in the worst possible way - having fought a despicable campaign.

[Eric Cartman]

Isn't he way ahead in the polling? It is just desperation from goldsmith, and he will lose in the worst possible way - having fought a despicable campaign.

Yes

[Eric Cartman]

I think people dont want a Muslim Mayor of London and I dont think they want a left wing Muslim MP as Mayor of London, did you watch the clip ?

Anyway lets wait and see what the results are on Thursday and I look forward to the debate you bring should Sadiq Khan win or lose. I guess you'll have different reasons depending on the result

Can you explain what the second paragraph means please?

People who don't want Khan as Mayor of London simply because he is a Muslim are holding a position which is infinitely more damaging, prejudicial and biggotted than anything Livingstone has said or done.

[TruBlue]

What does the mayor of London actually do?

[Badly Ironed Shirt]

What does the mayor of London actually do?

Art consultants usually.

[jon1959]

What does the mayor of London actually do?

The Mayor is responsible for making London a better place for everyone who visits, lives or works in the city. The job ranges from developing policies to setting budgets, from overseeing major programmes to championing London around the world – all in line with his or her vision and in the interests of London.

The Mayor of London is responsible for a budget of £17bn which is used, among other things, to run transport, police and fire services, build affordable homes and promote London’s economy. Part of the Council Tax levied by London’s councils is set by the Mayor to help fund these services

The London Assembly can amend the Mayor’s budget when two-thirds of the 25 Members agree

London’s councils, rather than the Mayor, are directly responsible for many of the services Londoners experience day-to-day like council housing, schools, social services, rubbish collection, street cleaning, parking permits, council tax collection and birth, death and marriage certificates. Central government leads on the NHS, welfare and most forms of taxation.


https://www.londonelects.org.uk/im-v...on-assembly-do

[life on mars]

Blue Oyster?

They don't fear the reaper though

[life on mars]

The Mayor is responsible for making London a better place for everyone who visits, lives or works in the city. The job ranges from developing policies to setting budgets, from overseeing major programmes to championing London around the world – all in line with his or her vision and in the interests of London.

The Mayor of London is responsible for a budget of £17bn which is used, among other things, to run transport, police and fire services, build affordable homes and promote London’s economy. Part of the Council Tax levied by London’s councils is set by the Mayor to help fund these services

The London Assembly can amend the Mayor’s budget when two-thirds of the 25 Members agree

London’s councils, rather than the Mayor, are directly responsible for many of the services Londoners experience day-to-day like council housing, schools, social services, rubbish collection, street cleaning, parking permits, council tax collection and birth, death and marriage certificates. Central government leads on the NHS, welfare and most forms of taxation.


https://www.londonelects.org.uk/im-v...on-assembly-do

And I thought it was all about the goldy looking chain

[jon1959]

I would love to see the demographic of who voted for who in the London election (but they dont ask you those details on the election paper)

As for the second paragraph of what I said was, could be better explained by what was on Radio4 this lunch time by Corbyn or rather the political analysis - If Corbyn / Labour get a hammering then their defence will be that of those awkward questions the press have asked re the anti Semitics coverage have had an effect and is part of the plot to oust Corbyn. Whereas if Corbyn / Labour are seen to have gained - then he will save it is vindication of his policies (whatever they are).

Khan will do much the same - if he loses he'll blame it on nasty Zac Goldsmith etc, which is why I would love to see the demographic - how many Muslim votes they both get , how many christian, Jewish, Atheist votes they get. How and that is represented across London.

Muslims in London are just over 1 million - about 12% - so presumably would all vote for Khan , just like poeple in valleys will always vote Labour regardless.

Should be an interesting night. Personally I think Corbyn will take quite a bashing - and there will be a leadership contest sometime after the EU referendum. Same goes for Cameron.

ps - I never knew Michael Foot and Tony Benn both voted not to join the EU and actively campaigned against it

That was when it was the EEC and seen by most on the left and in the trade union movement as a bosses club to maximise profit for wealthy shareholders at the expense of workers.

The EU is now a different beast, and since it was Jacques Delored it is much more a protector of human and workers rights, and the environment, against the abuses of national governments (often with policies that were never put in manifestos). The EU bureaucracy may be 100 times bigger than 40 years ago, and there are endless other legitimate complaints about the EU, but my guess is that Benn or Foot today would take the same (reluctant) 'remain' stance as Corbyn.

[xsnaggle]

And I thought it was all about the goldy looking chain

Ah but that is the "Lord Mayor of London" as in Dick Whittington, not the Mayor of Greater London Council.
The Lord Mayor is the Mayor of the City of London.
Different things - - - - apparently.

[Eric Cartman]

I would love to see the demographic of who voted for who in the London election (but they dont ask you those details on the election paper)

As for the second paragraph of what I said was, could be better explained by what was on Radio4 this lunch time by Corbyn or rather the political analysis - If Corbyn / Labour get a hammering then their defence will be that of those awkward questions the press have asked re the anti Semitics coverage have had an effect and is part of the plot to oust Corbyn. Whereas if Corbyn / Labour are seen to have gained - then he will save it is vindication of his policies (whatever they are).

Khan will do much the same - if he loses he'll blame it on nasty Zac Goldsmith etc, which is why I would love to see the demographic - how many Muslim votes they both get , how many christian, Jewish, Atheist votes they get. How and that is represented across London.

Muslims in London are just over 1 million - about 12% - so presumably would all vote for Khan , just like poeple in valleys will always vote Labour regardless.

Should be an interesting night. Personally I think Corbyn will take quite a bashing - and there will be a leadership contest sometime after the EU referendum. Same goes for Cameron.

ps - I never knew Michael Foot and Tony Benn both voted not to join the EU and actively campaigned against it

Even Tory commentators have felt it was necessary to come forward and condemn this blatently prejudiced Tory campaign against Khan, it is project fear with a bit of biggotry added in.

Corbyn is a marked man, he obviously has the right wing press against him but, somewhat more damaging, he has half of his own party willing to stoop to any level to oust him.

Demographics play a massive part in elections. Working age people are stuck with a government that the retired chose. Scotland and Wales are stuck with a government that England chose. The young will vote Khan, the old will vote Goldsmith, Muslims will vote Khan, Jews will vote Goldsmith.

[jon1959]

I dont think it is different at all now - than you said it was back when it was the EEC. All you need to do is read up on TTIP , what it means and how it will effect workers across the EU to see exactly noting has changed. Big business love the EU - as it is so far removed the individual countries that lobbying can go on totally unscrutinised

Here is Owen Jones (left wing columnist) take on it

I agree with Owen Jones on TTIP. I have campaigned against it.

However that is no argument that the EEC/EU hasn't changed since 1975.

[surge]

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/jam...JfqYS8.twitter

Regarding the London Mayoral race, it would appear that the Lib Dem candidate has proven herself best suited for the job (winning debates and praise for her ideas) but obviously people will only chose between the Tory and the Labour candidate.

[gnasher]

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/0...eted-did-they/

https://www.facebook.com/JeremyCorby...=3&pnref=story

I dislike how channels such as the BBC offer so little analysis of events. I find it depressing that the only time we hear about Israel's actions are when Palestinians are retaliated so all we can offer as a country is sighing and saying they're probably as bad as each other. I still haven't found anything massively offensive in what has been said (especially if you follow the well established argument that Hitler did not plan the holocaust) but now apparently we're going to have to tread carefully when already local governments are prohibited from boycotting Israeli produce grown in occupied Palestinian territories for fear that it will stir-up anti-Semitic views.

Good points.

Here's an alternative view, by someone who knows what the Holocaust and real anti semitism is all about, Norman Finklestien.


http://normanfinkelstein.com/2016/05...to-your-sewer/

[gnasher]

That was when it was the EEC and seen by most on the left and in the trade union movement as a bosses club to maximise profit for wealthy shareholders at the expense of workers.

The EU is now a different beast, and since it was Jacques Delored it is much more a protector of human and workers rights, and the environment, against the abuses of national governments (often with policies that were never put in manifestos). The EU bureaucracy may be 100 times bigger than 40 years ago, and there are endless other legitimate complaints about the EU, but my guess is that Benn or Foot today would take the same (reluctant) 'remain' stance as Corbyn.

I'd be amazed if either Benn or Foot would campaign to stay in the EU.

[goslow]

According to a senior labour mp 50 party members have been secretly suspended in recent weeks.

[Eric Cartman]

It seems that khan has a bit if explaining to do , with his reference to 'uncle toms'

Ridiculously poor choice of phrase but the sentiment is right, to tackle big issues you need to talk to people with big opinions and not just tiptoe around the edges.

[Eric Cartman]

According to a senior labour mp 50 party members have been secretly suspended in recent weeks.

Are you off the meds this week? I am sure just a few weeks ago you were massively opposed to this politically correct culture where no one can say a word without being suspended for offending or upsetting people, where every slightly misplaced word is jumped upon. Now you revel in it.

[TruBlue]

Ridiculously poor choice of phrase but the sentiment is right, to tackle big issues you need to talk to people with big opinions and not just tiptoe around the edges.

I thought you were banged up Max...

[Rjk]

Sadiq Khan in one interview refers to 'Uncle Toms' a slang racist term used to identify non white people who are attacked for being 'white' sympathisers.

Then in later interviews he says the term 'Uncle Toms' is racist term and that anyone caught using should be labelled racist etc.

Now Sadiq Khan offers an apology for using the same term in an interview on TV

Well guess what "Sadiq Khan said he regretted using the term, which is notorious racial slur used against black people to suggest that they are subservient to whites."

Maybe the Lib Dem is the better choice - for sure it isnt Khan

Give it up mate, none of us can actually vote in this election, and he's going to walk it anyway.

[Eric Cartman]

Give it up mate, none of us can actually vote in this election, and he's going to walk it anyway.

It's also a little bit hypocritical for a guy who earlier said 'people don't want a Muslim Mayor of london' (implying that he sees someones religion as a valid and rational reason to not vote for them) to suddenly jump onto the rooftops to shout 'racist, racist'.

Khan is probably going to win, I couldn't really care either way despite living quite close to London and therefore being somewhat affected. Khan isn't my kind of politician, seems a bit wet, pc and more of a weathervane than a signpost but maybe that is just a product of the unbelievable level of scrutiny that Muslim politicians have placed upon them. He has to be 'whiter than white' else there is some twerp waiting around the corner ready to imply they are part of one big Muslim terror plot.