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The Benn-ite wing of the Labour Party was traditionally very anti-Europe. But there has been a change of perception over time with the EU latterly being seen as an institution that better protects workers' rights. That said, St Jezza's commitment to the Remain cause did come across as half-hearted.
As far as I am aware we got exactly what we voted for in 1999, not sure what was watered down about it. You could argue it does not have the fullest possible powers but I don't remember that ever being on the table. With Brexit we were told that we would leave the single market and therefore stop the free movement of people, this was expressed countless times by both prominent leave and remain campaigners.
I had long been an advocate for devolution and proudly voted for it in 1999 and I am happy with the powers we have although very unhappy with the second rate politicians that infest the institution.
The vote was in 1997. The first Assembly elections were in 1999. For the first twelve years of its existence, the Assembly had no primary law-making powers - for the first seven years it was essentially a talking shop.
I voted leave, unlike most Plaid members and I know of only one other person (besides me) who has worked for Plaid and voted to leave. I worked with members of MEP Jill Evans' team for years and saw at first hand the "gravy train."
Public spending in Wales is around £37 billion per annum.
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Total EU funding to Wales has averaged around £300 million per annum; so roughly 1% of all Welsh public expenditure. Here is a link to an article from a few weeks ago in which EU Commissioner, Corina Cretu, confirms this figure and bemoans (bremoans?) the Welsh electorate's Leave vote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-37584927
"There were some regions in transition which have received a lot of money and we were there as a sign of solidarity in many moments of crisis for some regions, for instance when the mines were closed," said Ms Cretu, a former Romanian MEP who has been EU commissioner for regional policy since 2014.
"We have trained people; we have opened, due to European funds, many new activities.
"But of course this speaks also about our weaknesses of communicating what we are doing with European money, how European money is spent, so it's a lesson for us."
Ms Cretu confirms that the vast majority of this relatively piffling annual figure was spent on "training". And here is the evidence from the Welsh government.
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Guess what? Most of this money was spent on paying local gravy-trainers to set up CV workshops and suchlike in deprived valleys communities.
Wales was an exemplar at filling in the forms to get the EU funding. But unfortunately for Wales most of the EU cash was spunked feathering the nests of people who won these contracts for training.
That is why I voted leave. Westminster is corrupt and so is the Senedd, to an extent. But we have more chance of challenging that corruption than in the cesspool of Brussels.
Today's decision is political, not legal, and the fact that the Lord Chief Justice, Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd was a founding member of the European Law Institute, an organisation with an agenda to enhance European legal integration clearly indicates that.
Last edited by severncity; 03-11-16 at 19:07.
Does this mean we can't kick the darkies out ?
good post, nice read.
You must remember that it's also up to the WG to choose how they spend the money. But your first point backs up what I said about a watered down version of devo. Did anyone really think they were voting for an assembly with no law making power? Talk about devo-lite.
Brexit means Brexit ... until the Crown Court says it doesn't
We should absolutely question whether the process that lead to the result can be improved whether or not we can debate the result. If we moved away from FPTP the UK government would be far more representative of the country which voted for Brexit in great number but also pro-EU in great (slightly less) number - we would have more UKIP and more Lib Dems for a start.
We would thus end up politicians who were happy to debate what Brexit should look like rather than the unelected PM announcing it would be a hard and secretly forged deal which again doesn't necessarily represent the majority of leave voters nor represents the majority of MP's.
The process of debating information which the decision was made upon could hopefully be improved so that the only mention of £350 million for the NHS wasn't political comics suggesting it to sheepishly smiling Boris, Patel and co while they try and pretend it was never said. We could have hopefully had more debate like the Greek chap who said that no one will know what Brexit will do to the UK because nothing like it has happened around the world or Martin Lewis stating that both views could be taken up but this is what swayed it for him.
Absolutely we should debate the result of GE if it means more informed choices in the future and a more representative parliament.
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**** this.
Last edited by Taunton Blue Genie; 03-11-16 at 21:23.
Going against the people will be disastrous for the UK. Obviously a few bitter and disappointed remainers see an opportunity but they just look a bit silly. The vote was to leave, it was close but that's irrelevant.
Most MPs will vote with the people I would imagine but could be wrong.
I didn't vote to leave but look forward to a new future, it could well be the best thing the UK has ever done.
Let me get this right, "They" whoever they are let us plebs have a vote, we vote out and now "they" decide to go to court to stop us.
I've no doubt that if the MPs vote to leave (as is clearly what the majority wanted) you'll come up with some other nonsense about how it's part of the plan.
Disastrous? In what way? If you meant mass protests, civil strife and/or a general strike then you're dreaming. People are far too occupied with gawping trance-like at their mobile phones, watching shite on the box or exchanging trivial messages on Facebook. The TPTB know that.