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I wonder in 20 years will we be discussing Bale as a " great " personally i think we defiantly will
Nobody is calling him an alltime great. World class usually means comparison with his peers (as you said, "this day and age"). You're the only person talking about the past, apart from a post saying he's arguably the best Welsh player of all time. Even then, that's Welsh players only and he's certainly not a long way down the list there.
if we are talking about just welsh players that have played abroad and of world class ability in their era or time , then fair enough , but there as not been that many as there , other than john charles , ian rush , mark hughes , and gareth bale and thats about it.
charles for me would easily top that list.
More players will choose Wales now as little England are a crock of shite
bale is no maradona , cruyff, charles, di stefano, puskas, beckanbauer , etc great players are great players no matter what era you played in, as explained bale is up there with the best in the world in this era , but lets be honest, their is not a lot of competition about . in my opinion messi is the only player people will be talking about twenty years from now as a true great.from this era.
ask around pal, he was on another level to the other three that have been mentioned , the fact he went to juventus thirty years before any of the others followed him abroad tells its own story, you had to be very special indeed if a club like juventus wanted you at that time.
He never had a 'decision' to make, he never got the option to play for his country.
But you're correct, if he hadn't selfishly jumped at the chance to take a Welshmans place in their national team, he could have possibly played for his own country, they haven't exactly been blessed with decent centre back!
Hopefully he regrets it for the rest if his life, I'm sure deep down he actually does, I know I would.
I can't see me saying this very often, but I agree with Chris regarding John Charles.
My Dad plays against him when he was at Cardiff and he said he was in a different class to anyone else he played against, including John Toshack just before he moved to Liverpool.
For people such as Bobby Robson and Jimmy Greaves to rate John Charles as the best player they have ever seen, including Pele, that says everything.
I can't comment because I never had the chance to see john Charles play. I'm not saying Bale is better, but I just wonder how some people are so sure. I never knew jimmy greaves and bobby Robson said those things so that's interesting to know.
Why do people always pick out the big names, as if they were the only ones who had successful careers abroad. !
Here is one great player (even though he is Ingurlish), who is often forgotten:--
Cardiff City player as well,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Hitchens
for once I find myself agreeing with Chris.
john Charles was probably the outstanding player of the proffessional era, and certainly head and shoulders (yes and in height) above his peers.
When a panel of then famous managers were asked to name their best 11 players for a world team, an Italian put John Charles in the same team twice, once at Centre forward and once at Centre Half. When he was told he couldn't do that he said words to the effect of "You asked me to pick the best player in each position, and Charles is the best in the world in both these positions."
No one could argue against that and his selection was allowed to stand.
I cannot recall that ever being said of any other player before or since. (and in case anyone asks - - Yes, I did see him play)
I never saw John Charles play. My father did and I respect his opinion immensely. he said the same. Pick him c/f to go 1-0 up, then move him to c/h to secure the win. Bobby Robson wrote the foreword in Charles autobiography and it is a glowing recommendation. He must have been one hell of a player. By many accounts Wales might have won the 58 tournament is teams hadnt kicked the smoke out of him
Pele was undoubtedly the best ever. Longevity, world cups won, career goals/games ratio who else comes close?
Charles, Best, Messi all greats but their records at international level were average.
Interesting article. Having watched every world cup since 1966 my own view is that I have still not seen anyone to rival Pele as an individual player or the 1970 Brazil team. Defensively they were average but nothing matches their attack.
Each decade produces a truly great player but no one else has appeared in 4 world cups and won 3. Maradona, Messi and Cruyff do not come close.
Garrincha was supremely talented but like Best lacked discipline and wasted his great talent.