The Way to an Independent and Prosperous Wales

[CardiffIrish2]

I'm not convinced by the arguements for independence but I'd love to see it debated more.
Currently writing this on an early morning job in Ebbw Vale, the road leading up
Here is sadly something resembling the 19th century and post Brexit I can't see any additional funding for an already deprived area. Maybe in time Wales could do an Ireland ?
One thing I can't understand, although at moment I'm against independence ( for now ) I can't believe the amount of sneering I see on social media from
Welsh people at Nicola Sturgeon, I can't fault her for raising the debate and to see Welsh people mock her in such a way is beyond pathetic.
If the Labour Party had a leader like her we'd have a decent opposition.

[GRUMPYS DEN]

this sums up the other sign of the nationalist, the glass 1/2 empty syndrome, always blaming every problem on someone else

I used to be a nationalist, always voted Plaid, then i moved away from Wales and realised, the English dont really hate the Welsh, they dont see them as the poor relative, The Welsh have a " poor old us, we are always hard done by " mentality , that is the issue that needs to be changed then maybe independence will follow

Will be unpalatable to some but true.Independence though-no thanks!!

[Feedback]

Well I'll be damned if I'm going to type out an essay for you, just for you to take sentence out of it and nitpick it.

Lets see how we get on with the first point in my statement regarding the repression of the Welsh language (which I suspect you must already know about but are just looking for something to nitpick)

Here's a link that sums up a shameful part of history that should never be forgotten: The punishment of The Welsh Not - http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/s...ducation.shtml

Once you've read that, please feel free to come back and nitpick it in some way.

I think you will find that the prevailing thinking of the Welsh middle classes in the 19th century that to succeed in the empire you needed to speak english. It's no difference to the frenchification of brussels at the same time

[Feedback]

Well at least you can see that it was used.

Welsh was also removed by law as a language of administration by Henry the 8th so the people of Wales were forced to use English if they wanted to get anything done.

If these are not examples of the repression of the Welsh language then I don't know what to tell you.

Misguided. The act of union gave welsh people the same rights in law as englishmen.

[Feedback]

I would be hoping for a government that would nationalise energy, transport, communications, (not fully nationalise but maybe in the way Welsh Water or Cardiff Airport are run), investment in infrastructure, get our own businesses to supply and build our roads, rail, buildings etc

Make sure that if someone is capable of working, give them something to do, care for others, improve your community.

Give our youth something meaningful to do with their time rather than wandering the streets at night, looking to entertain themselves with mischief.

Invest in education and the sciences, look to the future even if it means borrowing now.

Instil a sentiment of self-belief, pride and self-esteem in people, get people to care for their surroundings and their communities.

I would even legalise drugs in the same way Portugal has successfully done it. Look at it as a public health issue rather than a criminal one.

Make a bigger deal of our culture and history, encourage tourism. Get our film industry up and running. There's all kinds of things we could be doing as a nation if we got stuck into it rather than continue in this eternal malaise.

Where is the money coming from to develop this socialist nirvana?

[blue matt]

I would be hoping for a government that would nationalise energy, transport, communications, (not fully nationalise but maybe in the way Welsh Water or Cardiff Airport are run), investment in infrastructure, get our own businesses to supply and build our roads, rail, buildings etc

Make sure that if someone is capable of working, give them something to do, care for others, improve your community.

Give our youth something meaningful to do with their time rather than wandering the streets at night, looking to entertain themselves with mischief.

Invest in education and the sciences, look to the future even if it means borrowing now.

Instil a sentiment of self-belief, pride and self-esteem in people, get people to care for their surroundings and their communities.

I would even legalise drugs in the same way Portugal has successfully done it. Look at it as a public health issue rather than a criminal one.

Make a bigger deal of our culture and history, encourage tourism. Get our film industry up and running. There's all kinds of things we could be doing as a nation if we got stuck into it rather than continue in this eternal malaise.

Wales does not need to be independent to do most of them, the pride thing is interesting, even though most Welsh are proud of being Welsh, lets face it, we are a great nation, as i have pointed out, some in Wales love the " hard done by " mentality

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

Wales does not need to be independent to do most of them, the pride thing is interesting, even though most Welsh are proud of being Welsh, lets face it, we are a great nation, as i have pointed out, some in Wales love the " hard done by " mentality

National pride and patriotism is fundamentally a religion and a selective identity we give ourselves to make us feel better. If you think we're a great nation it's cos you want to feel good about yourself, and so that can be used to fool ourselves that things are fine as they are.

Maybe you get this idea that there is a 'hard done by' mentality cos others might not be so patriotic?

Paradoxically, national pride is irrelevant in this instance since it's more about ideas and having the savvy to implement them and better organise our arbitrary area. Other arbitrary areas do this regardless of size.

[the other bob wilson]

Where is the money coming from to develop this socialist nirvana?

Certainly can't be by putting taxes up can it.

[Nick]

Certainly can't be by putting taxes up can it.

Why not? We'll have a left wing Government here in Wales if we were to go independent. I'm sure they would look to increase taxation. In fact it's certain they would need to.

[blue matt]

National pride and patriotism is fundamentally a religion and a selective identity we give ourselves to make us feel better. If you think we're a great nation it's cos you want to feel good about yourself, and so that can be used to fool ourselves that things are fine as they are.

Maybe you get this idea that there is a 'hard done by' mentality cos others might not be so patriotic?

I never really realised that the Welsh had the " hard done by " mentality till a few years after i moved away from Wales

The Welsh are patriotic, well most i have met have been, be it the football, travelling or in day to day life

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

I never really realised that the Welsh had the " hard done by " mentality till a few years after i moved away from Wales

The Welsh are patriotic, well most i have met have been, be it the football, travelling or in day to day life

Did you move to an area that was better off? Or was it the same and people were more stoic?

[TH63]

Shouldnt we be discussing this in Welsh?

[Nick]

Shouldnt we be discussing this in Welsh?

We should but I was repressed back in the day and was stopped from learning Welsh.

[blue matt]

Did you move to an area that was better off? Or was it the same and people were more stoic?

Hmmmm

I guess the area is slightly better off, its just outside Bath, but i wouldnt say its a massively huge difference

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

Well I've read all your comments and I'm glad everyone seems to be on board with this so I'm going to go ahead and get the ball rolling on it.

[Feedback]

Certainly can't be by putting taxes up can it.

Do we have an economy strong enough to generate wealth that drives tax receipts given we are already subsidised by £15bn per annum. Each man woman and child would need to pay an extra £5k per annum just to stand still. Given the average earnings in Wales are less than £30k per annum I can't see your proposal being too popular

[Heathblue]

I never really realised that the Welsh had the " hard done by " mentality till a few years after i moved away from Wales

The Welsh are patriotic, well most i have met have been, be it the football, travelling or in day to day life

Extremely patriotic, once they have moved away

[blue matt]

Extremely patriotic, once they have moved away

I was always patriotic, it didnt matter if i lived back home in Wales, Australia or England

Do you feel moving away from Wales makes a person less patriotic ? ? ?

[TH63]

I was always patriotic, it didnt matter if i lived back home in Wales, Australia or England

Do you feel moving away from Wales makes a person less patriotic ? ? ?

Yes.

[Heathblue]

I was always patriotic, it didnt matter if i lived back home in Wales, Australia or England

Do you feel moving away from Wales makes a person less patriotic ? ? ?

undoubtedly

[PerryJason]

Is it finally time for Wales to exert its independence and drag itself from the yoke of Westminster and the monarchy?

https://freewales.org/independent-wa...osperous-wales

This presents what appears to be one viable route to achieving that aim.

Is it even possible to convince the people of Wales that independence is in their own best interest?

The sooner the better please!!

[Organ Morgan.]

There's no need for an independent Wales. Instead we can express our national pride by watching 15 blokes clad in red on the box chasing a strange shaped ball around a field every now and then. That's real patriotism.

[NYCBlue]

It's weird that whenever the subject of Welsh independence is brought forward, how many Welsh people will become impossibly contrary, nitpicking whatever detail they can find to justify to themselves why they should dismiss wholesale the notion of independence.

This nation once fought fierce and proud against its invaders but now, after hundreds of years of being treated like a poor relative in a backwater, we've become so accustomed to subjugation that the prospect of going it alone is too much to even contemplate, like a nationwide collective Stockholm Syndrome.

People are quick to say "Wales could NEVER prosper on its own", as if it's ever prospered under England or ever had the chance to try. We've had our language squashed nearly out of existence, our culture sidelined, stolen from, and repressed.

Now even our own people have been conditioned to believe they are not worthy of controlling their own destiny. Wales could be doing so much better for itself, but we'll never find that out as long as everyone is too scared to poke their heads above the parapet.

If Britain can survive without Europe, then Wales can survive without Britain.

If Wales left Britain and became part of the EU it would do more than survive. All Britain has done is take from Wales. Cardiff has surged as a result of Britain being in the EU, the rest of Wales would be so much better of in (political not geographic )Europe than Britain.

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

If Wales left Britain and became part of the EU it would do more than survive. All Britain has done is take from Wales. Cardiff has surged as a result of Britain being in the EU, the rest of Wales would be so much better of in (political not geographic )Europe than Britain.

Maybe Wales, Scotland and Ireland could form The United Celtic Nations and join Europe together.

[Nick]

Maybe Wales, Scotland and Ireland could form The United Celtic Nations and join Europe together.

Why though? Didn't Wales vote to come out of the EU?