Brexit thread

[CardiffIrish2]

So what will today bring?

Part of me wishes this deal goes through as it at least prevents the shit storm of queues at the borders to get trade through.

[the other bob wilson]

And there for me personally lies the problem, for Labour .

Yvette Cooper would romp into power ,however like a lot of good Labour MP's they have been marginalised and viewed as a sort of centralist 'who may have smiled at Blair at some point in thier lives, therefore becoming not required as leaders or front bench politicians, who should be tearing these Tories apart ,she is one of many good socialists , lost to us , and unfortunately stopping Labour becoming a powerful force .

I would add the words "through her attachment to New Labour" after "she is one of many good socialists , lost to us".

To repeat what I posted on the other board a while ago;-

"I've not paid too much attention to what's in this 500 page document yet, but doesn't the response to it so far show the idiocy of just having a yes or no question on the 2016 Referendum ballot paper? It's just showing that there were so many different versions of Brexit covered in the total Leave vote - there will be some who are happy to proceed with it, but others who will be convinced it's a sell out and, to quote a phrase I've heard used quite often in the last twenty four hours, the worst of all worlds, yet they are all supposed to be on the same side!"

[cyril evans awaydays]

Raab sees exit. Who will be next? One minute he is confessing he didn't realise the volume of trade through Dover and the next minute he is resigning, presumably to support a no deal whose consequences are likely to turn southern Kent into a lorry park.

[life on mars]

Great summary, the only incey wincey hole in it is that the majority of the groups openly opposed to this deal already have power - remainer tories, erg, dup, scottish tories

This isn't about power. It is about taking this supposed mandate and delivering something that absolutely nobody wanted in the name of compromise. She was told at the very start that it was stupid, she told us to trust her because she is a fantastic negotiator and now 2.5 years after the vote she is in a dark room trying to convince even her feckin pals to support it. Tomorrow once she has threatened them into submission she will have to start working on the people who don't like her.

I would have hated to take up this mantle up , as there is no win .

The deal was always going to be one of compromise , and when the vote was made had not idea of what they were really voting for , or voted for a single issue or two .

I still think this issue is being used as a political battle in every quarter ,in every party ,and all of the parties are vying for a popular vote ,trouble is the country is split down the middle as is the parties .

I'm guessing those very parties are rubbing their hands in glee , with a no vote on the deal approaching , if that happens I'm hopping the main opposition parties come forward with their version of the deal to put it right ( part of me believes they don't have one, or do any better with regards to getting a deal, accepting to all )

I think folk should realise there is no good news on this one or golden opportunity.

[the other bob wilson]

Three resignations by 10 am - after all of the months of inertia things are certainly happening!

[Wales-Bales]

And there for me personally lies the problem, for Labour .

Yvette Cooper would romp into power ,however like a lot of good Labour MP's they have been marginalised and viewed as a sort of centralist 'who may have smiled at Blair at some point in thier lives, therefore becoming not required as leaders or front bench politicians, who should be tearing these Tories apart ,she is one of many good socialists , lost to us , and unfortunately stopping Labour becoming a powerful force .

Yvette Cooper is a Blairite.

[Wales-Bales]

Raab sees exit. Who will be next? One minute he is confessing he didn't realise the volume of trade through Dover and the next minute he is resigning, presumably to support a no deal whose consequences are likely to turn southern Kent into a lorry park.

[Wales-Bales]

[CardiffIrish2]

Yvette Cooper is a Blairite.

So? She’s very good at holding the govt to account as the committee meetings show.

[the other bob wilson]

Daniel Norcross on The Cricket Social just now - will the Sri Lankan innings last longer than the current government?

[Wales-Bales]

So? She’s very good at holding the govt to account as the committee meetings show.

It's all smoke and mirrors, Blairites are Tory-light globalists. They are David Cameron with a red rosette.

[CardiffIrish2]

It's all smoke and mirrors, Blairites are Tory-light globalists. They are David Cameron with a red rosette.

Thanks for that I feel so educated.

Honest.

[cyril evans awaydays]

I would have hated to take up this mantle up , as there is no win .

The deal was always going to be one of compromise , and when the vote was made had not idea of what they were really voting for , or voted for a single issue or two .

I still think this issue is being used as a political battle in every quarter ,in every party ,and all of the parties are vying for a popular vote ,trouble is the country is split down the middle as is the parties .

I'm guessing those very parties are rubbing their hands in glee , with a no vote on the deal approaching , if that happens I'm hopping the main opposition parties come forward with their version of the deal to put it right ( part of me believes they don't have one, or do any better with regards to getting a deal, accepting to all )

I think folk should realise there is no good news on this one or golden opportunity.

Well you would have hated to take up the mantle but Theresa May certainly barged her way to the front of the queue when the opportunity arose.

She then almost single handedly initiated and executed the worst election campaign in living memory when you look at the poll lead she frittered away and the weakness that introduced by having to rely upon a minority party.

She then painted a load of unnecessary red lines that appeased the hard Brexiteers but handcuffed negotiators and looked even weaker when these red lines were softened. Its difficult to remember that pre and post referendum a range of options what Brexit could be were being articulated by the same Tory ministers and backbenchers who now are filleting May for negotiating one they don't like.

To give her credit she seems to be driven by a sense of duty. She has survived this far mainly due to the cowardice of other Tories who would rather criticise and undermine but didn't have the guts to put themselves forward as alternatives when they knew they would have to pick up responsibility for a crock of shit.

Labour at one level has been little better as aside from a clearer commitment to being in a Customs Union it won't/can't articulate a clear vision that keeps its party/members/voters aligned. However where I disagree with your attempt to spread blame is that it is the duty of HM Opposition to oppose. The six tests, impossible as they are to achieve, are all promisory notes made to voters mainly by Tory Brexiteers or government.

The best way to get Labour to come clean on its vision for Brexit/not Brexit is via the ballot box where they will be forced to set this out in a way that there is no compelling need in opposition.

[Wales-Bales]

Thanks for that I feel so educated.

Honest.

You're welcome, now support a proper Labour candidate!

[Wales-Bales]

Well you would have hated to take up the mantle but Theresa May certainly barged her way to the front of the queue when the opportunity arose.

She then almost single handedly initiated and executed the worst election campaign in living memory when you look at the poll lead she frittered away and the weakness that introduced by having to rely upon a minority party.

She then painted a load of unnecessary red lines that appeased the hard Brexiteers but handcuffed negotiators and looked even weaker when these red lines were softened. Its difficult to remember that pre and post referendum a range of options what Brexit could be were being articulated by the same Tory ministers and backbenchers who now are filleting May for negotiating one they don't like.

To give her credit she seems to be driven by a sense of duty. She has survived this far mainly due to the cowardice of other Tories who would rather criticise and undermine but didn't have the guts to put themselves forward as alternatives when they knew they would have to pick up responsibility for a crock of shit.

I am quite pleased with how well all of my predictions turned out

[cyril evans awaydays]

Thanks for that I feel so educated.

Honest.

There is some reasonable debate taking place in this thread interspersed with the odd, and I mean odd, picture of european leaders with cupped hands over their mouths and you tube video presumably meant to signify some secret plot for the UK to remain in the EU. Alternatively a bit of predictable name calling that could annoy those on record of disparaging those who shoot the messenger rather than being able to articulate why they are disagreement with the message.

It's almost like triviality and the inability to articulate a rational argument was a prerequisite for Mensa membership these days!

[cyril evans awaydays]

I am quite pleased with how well all of my predictions turned out

It would be far too easy to ask you to produce a scintilla of evidence to support this assertion so it would be easier on my keyboard to say "Well done you"!

[Wales-Bales]

It would be far too easy to ask you to produce a scintilla of evidence to support this assertion so it would be easier on my keyboard to say "Well done you"!

Well, it took us two years to get where I said we would be, so that had to be the plan all along.

[Wales-Bales]

[Wales-Bales]

[Carl Dale's Mole]

Riveting stuff. First time watching a parliamentary session for two hours straight.

I feel a little sorry for May. She's trapped and there's **** all she can do about it . Not going down without a fight.

I agreed with her saying too many MPs are talking about what they wish would happen (second vote) rather than what is happening (brexit).

[blue matt]

Riveting stuff. First time watching a parliamentary session for two hours straight.

I feel a little sorry for May. She's trapped and there's **** all she can do about it . Not going down without a fight.

I agreed with her saying too many MPs are talking about what they wish would happen (second vote) rather than what is happening (brexit).

How many MP's asked for a " peoples vote " even after she had said No plenty of times, it was worse than a primary school debating club

Fair play, she played with a straight bat with that

[Wales-Bales]

How many MP's asked for a " peoples vote " even after she had said No plenty of times, it was worse than a primary school debating club

Fair play, she played with a straight bat with that

We've already had a peoples vote, their job now is to carry out the will of the people.

[cyril evans awaydays]

We've already had a peoples vote, their job now is to carry out the will of the people.

Not sure that your definition of the role of our sovereign Parliament is factually correct but there is a reasonable argument that the government and elected representatives should implement the outcome of the advisory referendum.

Out of interest what do you see as the will of the people? Is it the agreement that the government has negotiated with the EU or do you want something different?

[Eric Cartman]

We've already had a peoples vote, their job now is to carry out the will of the people.

A deal that satisfies are brexit voters is clearly impossible so you must mean no withdrawal deal. Is that your position? (Same question to any Brexiteers)