Brexit thread

[lardy]

Speaking of seeing the world in a very black and white way.

Easy to forget that Farage gets invited to talk at rallies for neo-nazis.

[severncity]

Speaking of seeing the world in a very black and white way.

Reich means “realm” and a German-dominated EU is inevitable after the U.K. leaves. I don’t for one minute think that there will be a Nazi regime in Berlin. However I do think that the anti-democratic tendencies within the EU power structures will be hijacked by Germany. One only has to look at how the national budgets in Greece, Ireland, Portugal and Italy have had to be rubber stamped by both the EC and the Frankfurt-based ECB to see that Germany exerts a powerful control over its “realm”.

All that Germany will need in order to de facto control the EU is a compliant France run by, say, an ex-Goldman Sachs banker. Hey Presto the Fourth Reich.

And anyway I was applying the term “black and white” thinking to past or current events. I’m not sure that it is really applicable to divining the future given the nature of this particular universe.

[life on mars]

I just say it as I see it. If you are talking rubbish then I am not going to stroke your hair and tell you it is true.

Hey, hey , no stroking,you'll end up in trouble , dontstrokeme#.

[life on mars]

I listened, watched and read a lot of media today on Brexit ,my god it's not easy to decide on it's so divisive everyone is swimming in different ways ,picking on individual parts that effects just them ,it seems no one can pull togther a single commonality agreement , what a burden and tough task this is .

[Rjk]

It seems to me, from the interviews I've heard over the last couple of days, that the leaver's main problem ether deal on offer is it prevents us from seeking our own deals, and "completely eliminates any potential competitive advantage" of the UK with respect to Europe.
I think you can read from this that the grand plan for the UK outside of the EU was to drop corporation tax and try to tempt big companies to move their operations here.

Is that the kind of thing that leave voters on here would be keen on?
Low tax, beholden to huge companies?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

It seems to me, from the interviews I've heard over the last couple of days, that the leaver's main problem ether deal on offer is it prevents us from seeking our own deals, and "completely eliminates any potential competitive advantage" of the UK with respect to Europe.
I think you can read from this that the grand plan for the UK outside of the EU was to drop corporation tax and try to tempt big companies to move their operations here.

Is that the kind of thing that leave voters on here would be keen on?
Low tax, beholden to huge companies?

That's where all the Brexit plans are heading are heading....

[life on mars]

That's where all the Brexit plans are heading are heading....

And border control cessation of free movement .

I wonder if the EU now reflects on boy Cameron's request to introduce a tighter control in immigration and free movement , as it now seems other European countries now think the same , even Democratic Clinton has weighed in recently sighting this as one of the reasons for the rise in right wing agenda's.

[Eric Cartman]

And border control cessation of free movement .

I wonder if the EU now reflects on boy Cameron's request to introduce a tighter control in immigration and free movement , as it now seems other European countries now think the same , even Democratic Clinton has weighed in recently sighting this as one of the reasons for the rise in right wing agenda's.

Companies, rich people and capitol will still have freedom of movement, just not you or I.

EU's handling of the migrant crisis has not helped but the Britons have always struggled with the concept of being in a single labour market and freedom of movement in general. Broadly speaking the people of this country has always found it hard to stop believing that a person in Newcastle deserves a job in London over a better qualified guy from Amiens, this view is not really compatible with being in favour of a European union.

[Eric Cartman]

It seems to me, from the interviews I've heard over the last couple of days, that the leaver's main problem ether deal on offer is it prevents us from seeking our own deals, and "completely eliminates any potential competitive advantage" of the UK with respect to Europe.
I think you can read from this that the grand plan for the UK outside of the EU was to drop corporation tax and try to tempt big companies to move their operations here.

Is that the kind of thing that leave voters on here would be keen on?
Low tax, beholden to huge companies?

Almost certainly our chosen way of surviving post 'no deal'.

[the other bob wilson]

Reich means “realm” and a German-dominated EU is inevitable after the U.K. leaves. I don’t for one minute think that there will be a Nazi regime in Berlin. However I do think that the anti-democratic tendencies within the EU power structures will be hijacked by Germany. One only has to look at how the national budgets in Greece, Ireland, Portugal and Italy have had to be rubber stamped by both the EC and the Frankfurt-based ECB to see that Germany exerts a powerful control over its “realm”.

All that Germany will need in order to de facto control the EU is a compliant France run by, say, an ex-Goldman Sachs banker. Hey Presto the Fourth Reich.

And anyway I was applying the term “black and white” thinking to past or current events. I’m not sure that it is really applicable to divining the future given the nature of this particular universe.

Let's just say your version of events does not include many, if any, "grey areas" (granted, you're far from alone in being like that - there are plenty on both sides who feel the same way), so I'd say you're seeing things in the same black and white terms you accused Cyril of displaying.

Also, no matter the context in which it's used, I think plenty of Germans would, rightly, be upset to see the term "fourth Reich" applied to them currently - the connotations are obvious even if you say that was not your intention.

[life on mars]

Companies, rich people and capitol will still have freedom of movement, just not you or I.

EU's handling of the migrant crisis has not helped but the Britons have always struggled with the concept of being in a single labour market and freedom of movement in general. Broadly speaking the people of this country has always found it hard to stop believing that a person in Newcastle deserves a job in London over a better qualified guy from Amiens, this view is not really compatible with being in favour of a European union.

Hasn't the real issue of free movement been a hot spot issue in those type of towns like the North East ,run down coastal areas where the jobs are low skilled, housing, health,school are already at a pinch points , these were seen as the UKIP breeding grounds, and I think this is being seen else where in the world, and I think that was the point Clinton was offering ,to fair she may have a point
Hillary Clinton: Europe must curb immigration to stop rightwing populists

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...y_to_clipboard

[the other bob wilson]

Normal thing, I suppose I think this is a great article because it virtually mirrors my own thought on the whole shambles - right down to the dig at Corbyn.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...war-with-spain

[life on mars]

Let's just say your version of events does not include many, if any, "grey areas" (granted, you're far from alone in being like that - there are plenty on both sides who feel the same way), so I'd say you're seeing things in the same black and white terms you accused Cyril of displaying.

Also, no matter the context in which it's used, I think plenty of Germans would, rightly, be upset to see the term "fourth Reich" applied to them currently - the connotations are obvious even if you say that was not your intention.

TOBW and do agree , especially when you view thier tolerance to others , they are not a nation that seeks participation in war and the arms race , they deliver good quality working rights and living standards for its people, yes I too would be upset as a German.

I think we maybe confusing efficency in running ones country to some form of organisation , and it does it better than most in a peaceful way .

[CardiffIrish2]

Normal thing, I suppose I think this is a great article because it virtually mirrors my own thought on the whole shambles - right down to the dig at Corbyn.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...war-with-spain

Same as my thoughts. Fair play that reference to Gromit laying down the tracks was genius 😂😂👍

[life on mars]

Same as my thoughts. Fair play that reference to Gromit laying down the tracks was genius ������

How anyone will be able to really measure the jobs test post and pre brexit is beyond me, as the worlds labour markets evolve naturally in so many ways, with or without Brexit ,at least the doomsday( every one is leaving) hasn't materialized yet .

[Eric Cartman]

Hasn't the real issue of free movement been a hot spot issue in those type of towns like the North East ,run down coastal areas where the jobs are low skilled, housing, health,school are already at a pinch points , these were seen as the UKIP breeding grounds, and I think this is being seen else where in the world, and I think that was the point Clinton was offering ,to fair she may have a point
Hillary Clinton: Europe must curb immigration to stop rightwing populists

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...y_to_clipboard

It sounds like she is saying that we should implement their agenda in order to stop them? The Brexit argument about migration was going on long before the migrant crisis so to conflate the two issues (freedom of movement within Europe and the mass movement of millions from Africa and the middle east) is not moral in my opinion. First we need to decide do we like the idea of people moving around Europe freely for work, I personally do. Then we can move on to how you fix the migrant crisis and ensure that Europe handles such a thing better in the future.

[Eric Cartman]

Same as my thoughts. Fair play that reference to Gromit laying down the tracks was genius ������

That is a cracker of a comparison.

[life on mars]

It sounds like she is saying that we should implement their agenda in order to stop them? The Brexit argument about migration was going on long before the migrant crisis so to conflate the two issues (freedom of movement within Europe and the mass movement of millions from Africa and the middle east) is not moral in my opinion. First we need to decide do we like the idea of people moving around Europe freely for work, I personally do. Then we can move on to how you fix the migrant crisis and ensure that Europe handles such a thing better in the future.

Sounds like a plan, trouble with Europe and it's plans, It takes an age, and the continent of Africa could have shifted by then😁

[Eric Cartman]

Sounds like a plan, trouble with Europe and it's plans, It takes an age, and the continent of Africa could have shifted by then��

Not sure that is a problem unique to the EU!!

[Wales-Bales]

Tory MPs Go To War Over John Hayes 'Utter Cock' Knighthood

https://www.iaindale.com/articles/to...ock-knighthood

[Wales-Bales]

Brexit: Donald Tusk tells European Union to approve his secret backroom deal with May that chains the UK to the EU forever

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46330380

[severncity]

TOBW and do agree , especially when you view thier tolerance to others , they are not a nation that seeks participation in war and the arms race , they deliver good quality working rights and living standards for its people, yes I too would be upset as a German.

I think we maybe confusing efficency in running ones country to some form of organisation , and it does it better than most in a peaceful way .

Cyril wrote

Conversely the proponents of playing hardball with the EU always warned we had the upper hand because of the suffering it would cause in the German automotive industry. For some this should be an early warning to Jerry not to mess with dear old Blighty!

implying that IF German car makers are worried that Brexit will have a negative effect on their industry THEN they will not punish Leave voting areas in the U.K.

The two concepts are not either/or. Being worried about Brexit has not stopped them punishing Llanelli, it seems. In the press releases plant closures were blamed on “the uncertainty surrounding Brexit.

Please quote a statement from me displaying similar black-and-white thinking.

Do you think there’s any truth in Harry Enfield’s comical portrayal of a German or is he just a gammony bigot?

[cyril evans awaydays]

Just for clarity the thrust of my response was to gently ridicule the far reached theory that the closure of the Llanelli factory was a punishment beating by a multi-national German manufacturer rather than a hard headed commercial decision. This was coupled with the intimation this happened as the CEO is clearly a very close friend of Merkel's (based on his participation in a visit to the White House). My response was as serious as I took your original argument.

Since then you have reinforced your line of argument a couple of times with the belief of the forthcoming Fourth Reich (of course this will look more like the First or Second Reich rather than the nasty Third one). Apparently this realm is possible because the ECB, though headed by an Italian, is based in Frankfurt and Macron used to be an investment banker for two years (although with Rothchild rather than Goldman Sachs). It seems theories based on little fact and leaps of faith is the vogue these days.

I am untroubled by your thoughts on the colour of my thinking though it seems people can take umbrage at such accusations!

[Eric Cartman]

Remember seeing this on Reddit when it came out, surprised that it only has 40k views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmRYGRILOxU

[Auntie Andy]

My letter to The Nation

https://twitter.com/theresa_may/stat...700037632?s=21

Going well I see