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Bob
What exactly is there to be proved right on our finances? From what I've read, Keith has only ever given his opinion on the numbers and what they likely mean. Interpreting a set of accounts is not rocket science to the trained eye. Football accounts are hardly complicated to understand.
Whether it's debt or equity Vincent Tan remains in control either way and the sales price (should there be one) would be based on future earning potential.
Two other points:
1. I don't think anyone is really saying anything differently - the same thing is being said just in a different way.
2. If all the debt was converted to equity Vincent Tan would find it easier to wind up the club as a a CVL is more onerous than a MVL
In a MVL case , the liquidator could also sell on the club`s golden share enabling it to carry on trading as a football club in its current position in the league.Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Fri, 02 January 2015 07:05
It's easier because there is less work involved (as you allude to yourself). Thats what i was getting at.
In an MVL the IP will be bound to act in the shareholders interests. It may well be that VT doesn't want to sell the club's golden share. It's not a foregone conclusion
It would not be down to VT whether he wants to sell the golden share or not - the IP decides. VT is only entitled to the sale proceeds not to decide if it is sold or to whom.
I'm aware of all that, what I'm alluding to is that the IP is appointed in a MVL by the shareholders and whilst the IP it to act independently, the reality is the IP looks at the shareholders aims when formulating their disposal strategy.It's easier because there is less work involved (as you allude to yourself). Thats what i was getting at.
I think he’s redeemed himself somewhat
This article was written by the Trust back in early 2015. It wasn’t until Feb 2016 did VT pledge himself to an immediate £60m+ conversion of debt to equity plus a further £8m per year over the next 5 years with the aim of making us a debt free club by 2021. He has kept to his word, although I don’t think the £60m was as immediate as he promised and he has also made debt write offs in the meantime. Of course, the overall indebtedness of the club will have changed since then so it will be interesting to see what the accumulative debt conversions and write offs have been to date and how far away we are from being debt free compared to what it would have been based on 2016 indebtedness. No doubt Keith will have a view.
As pointed out above these are old figures so I've no idea why we're worrying about them .
What's more, and despite the fact that I was angry about some previous events such as red shirts and other stuff around that period, Vincent Tan has sunk millions into this club and is by far the best " chairman" ( owner if you like), we've ever had .
He's taken us into the premiership twice in a few years and looks poised to do it a third time, built the club sensibly and solidly and it's in a far far better financial shape than most comparable clubs.
I think it's both insulting and ridiculous for people to be complaining about the man at this stage. He's the primary reason why we've come this far.
Spot on
Thank you - I don't think anyone has ever agreed with me on this message board before !
What you posted was correct
You need to be careful about these sensible posts, or it might become a habit!! we can't be 'aving that, lad!!!
We do have one or twoYou need to be careful about these sensible posts, or it might become a habit!! we can't be 'aving that, lad!!!
I prey certain posters don’t read this otherwise I estimate a 40 pager
It was all a bit embarrassing a few years ago, especially with our 'friends' down West being so perfect. Well, just look at us now. I'm not sure whether to pit 'them' or just laugh at them like they did to us?
I prey certain posters don’t read this otherwise I estimate a 40 pager
He is the reason I'm no longer a ST holder, acknowledge he's reversed on red etc. and taken the club to some great times, given me some great moments, Wembley with my children something my father never had a chance to do but with the red fiasco he broke my ST run, I did intend to go to a few games last year to try and get back into the routine but just didn't get round to actually making the effort to do it, things happen in cycles and I think it just caught me when the cycle was going to be broken anyway, it just accelerated it, I'm sure at some point something will click and will trigger the want to start going again, still support/want the team to do well albeit from the armchair, I wouldn't be surprised if the team went straight back to the PL (I hope they do).
No one was more angry than me during the red shirt period and the stuff which followed, including the Olly nonsense.
I don't like to hark back to all that actually, but if you press me I couldn't deny that Mr Tan made some serious mistakes back then.
Here's the thing though, we've all made mistakes and some of us learn from it. He has, which is the sign of a successful and clever man.
He could have let his ego rule him and persisted with his original path, or walked away from the club. He didn't though - he looked at it again and saw the problems then fixed them.
I don't mean to repeat what I said in that last post, but I'm saying all this because I don't want you to feel marginalised from the club or all the Cardiff City family at this point over past events.
At the end of the day we're all Cardiff City together when it comes to it - we will indeed go straight back into the premiership together , and we need you there when that happens !!!
I think it was reasonable to become more cynical about the promised large debt to equity conversion the longer it went on without it being fulfilled, but Vincent Tan came through in the end and I have, accordingly, changed my, largely negative prior opinion of the man accordingly - I'd also say that there is a good chance that the reason why the conversion didn't happen at the originally promised date is that Football League regulations prevented it from happening.
Ithought it was something to do with the Malaysian financial regulations, movement of large amounts of equity or something.
But hey-ho, he did it and that's the important thing.
I think since he changed the red shirts back to blue he's been all you could want in a chairman.
It would be great if the club had a slightly more long term plan, but since hiring Warnock supporting Cardiff has been enjoyable again.
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