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We're often being told these days what a fantastic country we live in these days, but is it really?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ing-for-brexit
Saw this, shook my head, cringed and thought ‘wtf has happened to this country?’
Whilst I think many MP’s are colossal bell ends, the thought that inflicting physical violence on them is backed by the majority of people (according to this survey) is truly abhorrent.
I’m in the process of studying to become a Teacher, the thought that kids I’m in class with are subjected to living with people who share these views is tragic.
I can’t believe for one minute, that the numbers quoted in this poll who would agree to using violence (On whatever side) are that high.
Misleading title to thread.
It doesn't surprise me one little bit because I've been pointing out here and elsewhere for a long time that there's an historical pattern here.
If we don't accept the outcome of voting as the means of deciding political matters, then the only alternative is war.
This is not a recommendation on my part but an observation and a fact. It's the reason why the more educated , experienced and practical generations which preceded the fluoride generation respected democracy so much.
I'm glad that someone who this tattooed generation might believe has pointed it out because if we don't think again on the subject, things can get a lot worse than minor violence. If we continue this thing of groups appointing themselves as above the will of the people and entitled to enforce their own will on the majority, the potential consequences are unthinkable .
The co director of the research, who works at Cardiff University, declared himself as "flabbergasted" by the results of the poll and they certainly surprised me.Originally Posted by William Treseder
Although I'm on the Remain side of the argument, as someone old enough to remember what it was like in the days before we joined the Common Market, I've never believed all of the prophecies of doom about what would happen when we left - Brexit is certainly not worth fighting over.
I can never understand the logic of being proud of being any nationality.
However, I fully understand that people can be proud of the values of a country they were born in or live in.
I absolutely agree. Nationality is ephemeral anyway; it's only a method of organising the administration of a collective and that can change shape many times over millennia. I think people can start becoming proud when they contribute to the important questions of human experience like solving hatred, poverty, disease, climate change and violence etc et al.
Yet none of these things have ever been solved, so perhaps trying is an indication of stupidity.
Far better to be practical and work around or confront them.
We know you've bought into the idea of a borderless world , which is a subliminal message of those who profit from one way trade advantages and weaponised immigration , but that's really not the point of this thread you know .
Philip, I've felt a bit down and needed a laugh to cheer me up so I've unlocked your infantile bilge from ignore. Come on now you must have a smidgen of intellect buried in there deep down: don't you understand the concept of "how long is a piece of string"?
No you didn't ever ignore me. You just said that to make it seem as if you weren't a stalker.
Some of this is stuff is almost child like .na,na,na,na,na
All I want to say is that I find how this thread has "developed" to be incredible - we have a survey where a majority of leavers and remainers (note both sides) think the risk of violence towards MPs is a "price worth paying" - all this after one was murdered days before the2016 Referendum and people on here want to ignore this and discuss patriotism!
You're quite right that they've misunderstood the thread, but that's partly because the title is misleading.
As I said, and have said before , that's historically the next stage after you ignore a vote and it gets worse from there until you restore democracy.
I don't know why you're surprised.
It will be so wrong to ignore this particular vote , its almost crimminal how parties have played political football with it .
I expected nothing else from the Tories , personally for me the biggest let down has been Labour's performance , it was within thier grasp to be a bigger and braver player in this debate, which could see tyem benefit with a win at the next GE, that won't happen now .
So, can the last two posters in this thread confirm that they think the risk of violence against MPs is a price worth paying over Brexit?
No, it's not a question of being a price worth paying. No one here is suggesting or condoning violence.
What's being pointed out is that there's an observable sequence of events in history which leads not just to violence but often to actual war when votes and elections are over ruled.
That's why Churchill said "democracy is the worst system in the world except for all the rest" , and " jaw jaw is better than war war".
Previous generations were well aware of the potential consequences of ignoring the electorate, which is why everyone was careful to preserve democracy.
I read your message because I assumed it was a direct answer to the question I asked, so thank you for that and I accept that you have an argument there in what you say, but I have to say you are missing the point somewhat.
I accept that you're not agreeing with the "price worth paying" viewpoint, but the point is that this poll suggests that there is a majority of people out there who do. This is not an anti Leaver thing, because, it would appear, that it applies equally to Remain voters. It has to surely follow therefore, that there are users of this board that agree with the "price worth paying" line and yet this thread has largely been ignored - maybe I'm stretching things a bit here, but that suggests to me that they are embarrassed, or even ashamed, to admit that they feel like they do.
Of course, the alternative is that it is a rogue poll and its findings are not mirrored in real life - I sincerely hope that this is the case.
I don't doubt that the poll is roughly right.
I also don't think there's anything to be gained from questioning the morality of those who might consider turning to violence because we know by studying history that it's an established and probably unavoidable trait of human behaviour in these circumstances.
A similarly dangerous situation exists in foreign policy where we expect to bomb other countries at the drop of a hat without eventual consequences. We go on to encourage immigration from the countries we have bombed but it doesn't occur to us that some of these immigrants will be bent on vengeance.
I could go on, but there are innumerable examples of the fact that we appear to have forgotten or chosen to ignore the fact that things have consequences which we cannot control if we don't keep the lessons of history and human experience in mind. These consequences often involve others rather than just those who acted so unwisely - we all have to suffer the risk of knife crime because children are brought up without discipline or the fear of punishment, and there are increasing numbers of lethal random attacks because we refuse to confine dangerous lunatics.
I often try to speak out about this general dumbing down which nurtures such unwise strategies, but I can assure you that it also effects our decision makers. M.Ps are usually the product of State schools and current pseudo moralities in their upbringing, and they are often surprisingly just as unaware of the practical realities I speak of, as are the unwitting advocates of disaster we might read posts from here.
In trying to make the world as civilised and safe as possible, we must understand the realities of the world and work with them to achieve the best possible outcome, because if we simply pretend they don't exist, they will certainly overwhelm us.
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