Is there a future for the labour party ?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Boris will feck up brexit , leaving the European union will haunt this country for years and the ones who will suffer are the former labour voters who supported him

[Gofer Blue]

Boris will feck up brexit , leaving the European union will haunt this country for years and the ones who will suffer are the former labour voters who supported him

A lot will depend on how the EU reacts to the leave decision. Will they play hard-ball with us to "teach us a lesson" and deter other countries who might be contemplating doing the same? On the other hand they now know we are serious and getting out asap which will mean a huge hole in their income (ok, not right away) and a possible threat to their exports to us if they start a tariff war.

I am old enough to remember the Common Market and that seemed to work pretty well. The political union was when the rot started to set in and the money-gobbling bureaucratic monster was born. Interesting times ahead.

[Gofer Blue]

Further to the above: In 2018 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at nearly £9 billion. The rebate we "enjoy" was £4 billion - without it the bill would have been £17 billion! That's a pretty large amount for the remaining EU members to cough up.

[the other bob wilson]

I think the Tories have got the "middle ground" covered now, so it's pointless Labour going there anyway. So is the Labour party in effect irrelevant now? Obviously the Tories HAVE to deliver now as, as another poster has pointed out, the traditional Labour voters in the North will desert them in 5 years time and we will be back to square one.

Do you really? I don't, they went the way an awful lot of people wanted them to when it came to Brexit, but I'd say there are millions of middle ground voters who don't believe they have a true political home these days.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Further to the above: In 2018 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at nearly £9 billion. The rebate we "enjoy" was £4 billion - without it the bill would have been £17 billion! That's a pretty large amount for the remaining EU members to cough up.

You make the presumption that the EU will set its 2021-27 budget based on the current one where this is not the case. The future budget under negotiation will factor in the net contribution loss from the UK. It will be budgets for things like the CAP and regional funds that will suffer (there was already an intention to re-balance budgets for climate change initiatives in any event).

Looks like Johnson has followed May's path in setting an unnecessary red line around the transition period before negotiations begin. The EU will follow its successful method during the Withdrawal Agreement phase of setting out its negotiating priorities that will give it the greatest benefit in the 11 month window between leaving the EU on 31st January and the end of December. Any deal in that timeframe is likely to be framed around those narrow lines rather than an all embracing one which could take a number of years to achieve. Somewhere along this path people may start to ask what getting Brexit done actually means I suppose but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[jon1959]

Andrew Fisher who resigned as Labour Policy Director before the election (his critical memo was leaked to The Times) with an interesting (and balanced!) assessment:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...sformed-labour

[life on mars]

Do you really? I don't, they went the way an awful lot of people wanted them to when it came to Brexit, but I'd say there are millions of middle ground voters who don't believe they have a true political home these days.

Think the Labour party's problem is their traditional old fashioned working class electorate is gone , there is a new middle ground voter to be won now from those voters who are more aspirational, they need to appeal to them in a modern way not via old fashioned policies , currently on offer and presented over the last 14 years and 4 elections, they are simply not appealing and attracting voters , something new and big has to be found in thier policy direction .

[life on mars]

Andrew Fisher who resigned as Labour Policy Director before the election (his critical memo was leaked to The Times) with an interesting (and balanced!) assessment:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...sformed-labour

But transformed them into what, a minority unelectable party ?

[RonnieBird]

Due to processes for electing new leader they'll get another public school Islington Marxist and spiral further into insignificance.
Then a large enough number of labour MPs ( I think they need 102) to become the Opposition will split off and become the second party.
Labour at that point will be on the fringes because there's no place for socialism any more

[life on mars]

Due to processes for electing new leader they'll get another public school Islington Marxist and spiral further into insignificance.
Then a large enough number of labour MPs ( I think they need 102) to become the Opposition will split off and become the second party.
Labour at that point will be on the fringes because there's no place for socialism any more

Sadly I think your right , however if the zeal of momentum had been contained , and a decent leader had been elected with a broader view of modern life and politics, a coaltion may have been forced through ,and Brexit halted , with Boris boxed in and contained.

Thats what narrow ideolgy achieves (failure)

Sorry about the grammar I'm a bit thick ,according to the special ones.

[the other bob wilson]

Can't help agreeing with this article about how the liberal left lost the 10s, as opposed to the libertarian right won them;-

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-stifle-debate

[life on mars]

Where's the lost great hope Dan Jarvis , has he been culled as well ??

[jon1959]

Where's the lost great hope Dan Jarvis , has he been culled as well ??

As you ask.....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...byn-dan-jarvis

[life on mars]

As you ask.....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...byn-dan-jarvis

Fresh outlook and face perhaps the man for the moment with Jess Phillips as deputy ( or is that role now dead after NEC shenanigans)

[welshyoot]

Andrew Fisher who resigned as Labour Policy Director before the election (his critical memo was leaked to The Times) with an interesting (and balanced!) assessment:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...sformed-labour

Can't help agreeing with this article about how the liberal left lost the 10s, as opposed to the libertarian right won them;-

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-stifle-debate

Both interesting reading, thank you. I also found these articles from Paul Mason quite good reading. They are along similar lines but with different points.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...sectarian-left

https://www.newstatesman.com/2019/12...entre-and-left

https://www.paulmason.org/wp-content...ynism-v1.4.pdf (this one downloads a pdf I think)

[jon1959]

Rebecca Long-Bailey's opening pitch:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-party-britain

[life on mars]

Rebecca Long-Bailey's opening pitch:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-party-britain

Why keep referring back surely a party that wants to appeal to the young new age don't want to he stuck in a mindset if coal mines and dock closures. We have moved on.

If this type of post Thatcher message resonated surely folk would have voted for it by now?

Key data for Labour to work on is 14 years , 4 elections and left wing policy.

[Heathblue]

This woman would like to the leader
https://vine.co/v/i0xEIb9Eg9U

[life on mars]

A lot will depend on how the EU reacts to the leave decision. Will they play hard-ball with us to "teach us a lesson" and deter other countries who might be contemplating doing the same? On the other hand they now know we are serious and getting out asap which will mean a huge hole in their income (ok, not right away) and a possible threat to their exports to us if they start a tariff war.

I am old enough to remember the Common Market and that seemed to work pretty well. The political union was when the rot started to set in and the money-gobbling bureaucratic monster was born. Interesting times ahead.

Very true

[life on mars]

This woman would like to the leader
https://vine.co/v/i0xEIb9Eg9U

dreadful lady,Lisa Nandy and Jess Phillips seems the best of the ladies

[life on mars]

Rebecca Long-Bailey's opening pitch:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-party-britain

Oh dear me ground hog day .

" Jeremy Corbyn “10 out of 10” for his record in the party’s top job" really ?

The Unite Union babe .

[Gofer Blue]

Rebecca Long-Bailey's opening pitch:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-party-britain

I actually feel sorry for her. She is obviously a very intelligent lady to have got where she is but she must surely have been brainwashed into Corbynism along the way.

[life on mars]

I actually feel sorry for her. She is obviously a very intelligent lady to have got where she is but she must surely have been brainwashed into Corbynism along the way.

She is new to the party ithink she joined in 2010 , no great depth of experience in the left of politics or unions , up to 2010 she was a Healthcare Solicitor with Hill Dickinson LLP , specialized in NHS contracts ,and she is a devote catholic .

[Heathblue]

5 candidates,

1 alpha white male

Fallout when the man gets it

[jon1959]

5 candidates,

1 alpha white male

Fallout when the man gets it

The Guardian opinion pages will be in meltdown. But undeniable that Labour will be embarrassed if they choose a male leader again after all the other main UK parties have selected women.

However, I think the mood amongst members will be against any tokenism and for whoever appears to be the best candidate.