Is the media more interested in criticizing than reporting?

[Hilts]

we all see the people in the media and who we know personally who tell the tale of having to sell mum and dad's home to pay for their care. So if the care homes are taking the money they should be responsible for the care they are charging for, where ever the money comes from. And that should include adequate PPE.
I am not suggesting the Governemt tells them to "Get your own" and let the people die if they don't, but when everything quietens down they should be held accountable just as the government should

Why Care Homes couldnt get PPE is a question to be asked. Some have already said they have tried for new supplies but cant get them. A Care Home owner in Wales said when she got to check out from her supplier she couldnt purchase as the items are reserved for NHS England.!!!!

Its a disgrace Care Workers , Nurses , Doctors all falling to this horrible virus.

[tell it like it is]

Why couldn't Care Homes get PPE?

I've no PROFIT reasons why the PROFIT 84% PROFIT privately PROFIT owned care PROFIT homes haven't.

[tell it like it is]

Snippet from Guardian live feed.

"Cases in Germany likely to be 10 times higher than official number, researchers conclude

More than 10 times as many people in Germany have probably been infected with the coronavirus than the number of confirmed cases, researchers from the University of Bonn have concluded from a field trial in one of the worst hit towns.

The preliminary study results, which have yet to be peer reviewed for publication in a scientific journal, serve as a reminder of the dangers of infection by unidentified carriers of the virus, some of whom show no symptoms, the researchers said.

The readings come as Germany took further steps on Monday to ease restrictions, with museums, hairdressers, churches and more car factories reopening under strict conditions.

About 1.8 million people living in Germany must have been infected, more than 10 times the number of about 160,000 confirmed cases so far, the team led by medical researchers Hendrik Streeck and Gunther Hartmann concluded.

“The results can help to further improve the models to calculate how the virus spreads. So far the underlying data has been relatively weak,” Hartmann said in a statement.

The team analysed blood and nasal swabs from a random sample of 919 people living in a town in the municipality of Heinsberg on the Dutch border, which had among the highest death tolls in Germany.

To arrive at their estimate, the researchers put the town’s number of known deaths from Covid-19 relative to the larger estimate of local people with a prior infection – as indicated by antibody blood test readings – and applied the rate of 0.37% to country-wide deaths.

They also found that about one in five of those infected showed no symptoms."

Caveat being that the research had not yet peer reviewed. If true though, shows how dangerous looking at statistics and figures is.

[Heisenberg]

Why couldn't Care Homes get PPE?

I've no PROFIT reasons why the PROFIT 84% PROFIT privately PROFIT owned care PROFIT homes haven't.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but is the care homes aspect of this discussion a bit too close to home (no pun intended) for you to be unbiased?

For the record, I'm not a fan of them. I actually said to my brother the other day (about seeing care home owners on the news) that I have this opinion that all of them are greedy bastards and have no empathy. This is based on the fact that my mum once worked in a privately run care home and the owners were utter c**ts, who only concentrated on profit margins, not the quality of life for the residents.

That being said... how were they supposed to prepare and stockpile for a pandemic when our own Govt. (who had ample warnings and time to prepare) failed to do so?

Just wondering what your take on that would be.

[xsnaggle]

How are we expecting thousands of individual care homes across the UK to procure enough PPE for their staff when our own Govt. (with their connections and finances) are failing to procure enough for the areas that they're responsible for?

I think we're all in agreement that private care homes should be funding it themselves, like any other business should be, but I don't think we can expect all of these separate businesses to be able to source their own PPE at this time.

But some people, including some in the media, are claiming that the UK government should have had a stockpile of PPE just in case of such and emergency. Shirley by the same token private health care providers should also have had such a stockpile? They are paid generous sums to take care of their clients.

At another angle I have no idea, nor have I seen it mentioned, what the shelf life of some of these items of PPE might be. It's a bit like snow ploughs, they are expensive and for long periods sit in a yard unused but when we have a snowfall eveyone is complaining that the authorities don't have enough. Its a difficult balance.

[Heisenberg]

But some people, including some in the media, are claiming that the UK government should have had a stockpile of PPE just in case of such and emergency. Shirley by the same token private health care providers should also have had such a stockpile? They are paid generous sums to take care of their clients.

At another angle I have no idea, nor have I seen it mentioned, what the shelf life of some of these items of PPE might be. It's a bit like snow ploughs, they are expensive and for long periods sit in a yard unused but when we have a snowfall eveyone is complaining that the authorities don't have enough. Its a difficult balance.

I actually just mentioned this in my last post (while you would have been writing your response)...

"how were they supposed to prepare and stockpile for a pandemic when our own Govt. (who had ample warnings and time to prepare) failed to do so?"

I don't know the answer - but I'm guessing it's a completely different ballgame to what the Govt. were playing - this is why I'm suggesting that we can't compare the two when it comes to having PPE. I'm not saying that I'm right, it's just how I see it.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

But some people, including some in the media, are claiming that the UK government should have had a stockpile of PPE just in case of such and emergency. Shirley by the same token private health care providers should also have had such a stockpile? They are paid generous sums to take care of their clients.

At another angle I have no idea, nor have I seen it mentioned, what the shelf life of some of these items of PPE might be. It's a bit like snow ploughs, they are expensive and for long periods sit in a yard unused but when we have a snowfall eveyone is complaining that the authorities don't have enough. Its a difficult balance.

D.R.P.

[tell it like it is]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but is the care homes aspect of this discussion a bit too close to home (no pun intended) for you to be unbiased?

For the record, I'm not a fan of them. I actually said to my brother the other day (about seeing care home owners on the news) that I have this opinion that all of them are greedy bastards and have no empathy. This is based on the fact that my mum once worked in a privately run care home and the owners were utter c**ts, who only concentrated on profit margins, not the quality of life for the residents.

That being said... how were they supposed to prepare and stockpile for a pandemic when our own Govt. (who had ample warnings and time to prepare) failed to do so?

Just wondering what your take on that would be.

I'd not say it's about stockpiling for a pandemic, it's about not having the equipment due to cost per se. From what I've seen, I don't believe care home workers have the correct equipment at normal times, especially when flu kicks in.

[Hilts]

But some people, including some in the media, are claiming that the UK government should have had a stockpile of PPE just in case of such and emergency. Shirley by the same token private health care providers should also have had such a stockpile? They are paid generous sums to take care of their clients.

At another angle I have no idea, nor have I seen it mentioned, what the shelf life of some of these items of PPE might be. It's a bit like snow ploughs, they are expensive and for long periods sit in a yard unused but when we have a snowfall eveyone is complaining that the authorities don't have enough. Its a difficult balance.

The UK Government didnt have sufficient stockpiles of PPE. They were warned supplies were low.

Were Care Homes advised to get stockpiles because of a pandemic.? I dont know.

But because of the shortage some Care Homes now cant get PPE from their usual suppliers.

[xsnaggle]

The UK Government didnt have sufficient stockpiles of PPE. They were warned supplies were low.

Were Care Homes advised to get stockpiles because of a pandemic.? I dont know.

But because of the shortage some Care Homes now cant get PPE from their usual suppliers.

I understand that they cannot get what they need and government has a duty to protect the inhabitants but the question is will they be held accountable and be billed for the PPE later? Shops and companies who have to bring in screens and PPE to continue to function are having to bear the cost from their profits. Shouldn't care home companies be made to do the same?

[Hilts]

I understand that they cannot get what they need and government has a duty to protect the inhabitants but the question is will they be held accountable and be billed for the PPE later? Shops and companies who have to bring in screens and PPE to continue to function are having to bear the cost from their profits. Shouldn't care home companies be made to do the same?

From what I understand they are paying for it. Also paying VAT as well. Although they can claim this back.

[xsnaggle]

D.R.P.

What is that supposed to mean? Fugging textspeak. I hate it!

[A Quiet Monkfish]

What is that supposed to mean? Fugging textspeak. I hate it!

So do I !

Disaster Recovery Plan. Most businesses have them in place, such as what happens if our factory burns down. Without one there's panic, meeting after meeting, can't find this, haven't got that, who do we contact for this and that etc.,. Normally the Directors have one at home on file - all customers backed up, all contacts re plant, machinery, insurance, where to go to find temporary accommodation - it can save a business from ruin, and means they can be up and running in days. The Govt. will have one in the event of a nuclear strike and you would have thought also such things as a pandemic, especially after SARS etc. If they did have one it would have told them where the existing PPE was located incl. it's "shelf life". [ if say 5yrs, then they should replenish every 5yrs], how much there is, where it can be obtained, including all those businesses who can produce extra, at what speed and quantity, the contacts in those businesses [who would obviously be in agreement with the arrangements], and so on. I don't know about the technical requirements of the testing kits, but I would think they're mostly generic. If that's the case, then there's no excuse for not being able to put the resource of those contacts who are able, to produce enough kits within a week or so. It seems that it's all been done on the hoof, with little or no readiness..

[The Lone Gunman]

I really hope when this is over and the economy is wrecked with 4-5 million long term un-employed , serious questions are asked about the wisdom, ethics, and advice-taken, about the whole approach..

That's the spirit! It's a relief to hear you sounding so upbeat. I was getting worried about you. After all, just a fortnight ago you were predicting that the only people working by the end of this year would be those in the public sector and there wouldn't be any money available to pay them. I'm glad your outlook is becoming a bit more positive.

[tell it like it is]

That's the spirit! It's a relief to hear you sounding so upbeat. I was getting worried about you. After all, just a fortnight ago you were predicting that the only people working by the end of this year would be those in the public sector and there wouldn't be any money available to pay them. I'm glad your outlook is becoming a bit more positive.

Public sector work? *whistles*

Everyone is wise after the fact, we're still dealing with mass uncertainty about covid-19. Scientific views change seemingly every day - an kids transmit or not? Are German figures accurate? So on, so on...

I doubt any government has handled it perfectly or could.

What's needed now is to balance the risks to remove the lockdown as efficiently as possible.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

That's the spirit! It's a relief to hear you sounding so upbeat. I was getting worried about you. After all, just a fortnight ago you were predicting that the only people working by the end of this year would be those in the public sector and there wouldn't be any money available to pay them. I'm glad your outlook is becoming a bit more positive.

Battered cod, carrots, fresh broad beans, fresh asparagus, homemade hollandaise.

[The Lone Gunman]

Battered cod, carrots, fresh broad beans, fresh asparagus, homemade hollandaise.

Don't forget the chips.

[xsnaggle]

So do I !

Disaster Recovery Plan. Most businesses have them in place, such as what happens if our factory burns down. Without one there's panic, meeting after meeting, can't find this, haven't got that, who do we contact for this and that etc.,. Normally the Directors have one at home on file - all customers backed up, all contacts re plant, machinery, insurance, where to go to find temporary accommodation - it can save a business from ruin, and means they can be up and running in days. The Govt. will have one in the event of a nuclear strike and you would have thought also such things as a pandemic, especially after SARS etc. If they did have one it would have told them where the existing PPE was located incl. it's "shelf life". [ if say 5yrs, then they should replenish every 5yrs], how much there is, where it can be obtained, including all those businesses who can produce extra, at what speed and quantity, the contacts in those businesses [who would obviously be in agreement with the arrangements], and so on. I don't know about the technical requirements of the testing kits, but I would think they're mostly generic. If that's the case, then there's no excuse for not being able to put the resource of those contacts who are able, to produce enough kits within a week or so. It seems that it's all been done on the hoof, with little or no readiness..

Why didn't you answer properly in the first place if you chose to answer. DRP alone means nothing!

As for plans for different things, you'd be amazed at the plans goverment have in place for all kinds of thing's but that said, nothing on this scale has been seen anywhere in the world ever in the history of modern medicine or science. If anyone in any government had suggested they should make a plan for the whole world stopping all at once he'd have been laughed out of office.

As for there's no excuse for not being able to put the resource of those contacts who are able, to produce enough kits within a week or so When every major governemt in the world and millions of private bodies are clamouring to do exactly the same thing why do you think there is no excuse for not being able to do it in a week, particularly as it is not a one off purchase, it is purchase after purchase after purchase and not just by UK but by all the other agencies too.

[the other bob wilson]

Public sector work? *whistles*

Everyone is wise after the fact, we're still dealing with mass uncertainty about covid-19. Scientific views change seemingly every day - an kids transmit or not? Are German figures accurate? So on, so on...

I doubt any government has handled it perfectly or could.

What's needed now is to balance the risks to remove the lockdown as efficiently as possible.

Even now, some people can't resist a public sector dig - will you be applauding the NHS workers on Thursday?

[tell it like it is]

Even now, some people can't resist a public sector dig - will you be applauding the NHS workers on Thursday?

Oh get over it, Bob, was a joke...

Are you trying to applaud shame?

[Tuerto]

Oh get over it, Bob, was a joke...

Are you trying to applaud shame?

I work for the public sector as a plasterer and floor layer and a bit of roofing and i'll tell you this, they want every ounce out of you for pretty crap pay. Sometimes three jobs in a day at different properties. The biggest difference is the quality of work and standard required (27 years in the private sector)

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Why didn't you answer properly in the first place if you chose to answer. DRP alone means nothing!

As for plans for different things, you'd be amazed at the plans goverment have in place for all kinds of thing's but that said, nothing on this scale has been seen anywhere in the world ever in the history of modern medicine or science. If anyone in any government had suggested they should make a plan for the whole world stopping all at once he'd have been laughed out of office.

As for there's no excuse for not being able to put the resource of those contacts who are able, to produce enough kits within a week or so When every major governemt in the world and millions of private bodies are clamouring to do exactly the same thing why do you think there is no excuse for not being able to do it in a week, particularly as it is not a one off purchase, it is purchase after purchase after purchase and not just by UK but by all the other agencies too.

You can only plan for what you know, true. However we had a situation where the govt. was desperate for PPE and couldn't source suppliers overseas or large enough ones in the UK. Scores of firms contacting the Govt./NHS offering to manufacture stuff but couldn't get a response, whilst the govt. saying day after day how they were trying to source suppliers. None of that is rocket science and with a bit of planning the Govt/NHS could have just rattled off a few emails to designated manufacturers and they could have gone into production within days..

[xsnaggle]

You can only plan for what you know, true. However we had a situation where the govt. was desperate for PPE and couldn't source suppliers overseas or large enough ones in the UK. Scores of firms contacting the Govt./NHS offering to manufacture stuff but couldn't get a response, whilst the govt. saying day after day how they were trying to source suppliers. None of that is rocket science and with a bit of planning the Govt/NHS could have just rattled off a few emails to designated manufacturers and they could have gone into production within days..

The reply to that was that some of the people offering to manufacture and supply wwere offering things 'too small scale' to make it feasable.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Oh get over it, Bob, was a joke...

Are you trying to applaud shame?

Don't forget to remind the medical staff treating your wife's illness about how feckin lazy they are next time she has an appointment.

[tell it like it is]

Don't forget to remind the medical staff treating your wife's illness about how feckin lazy they are next time she has an appointment.

Only call out laziness and incompetence when it happens, kid...