Lives vs. livelihoods & a gutted UK economy

[Wales-Bales]

Good grief.....

You know that JFK gave this address to the press association just a week after the Bay of Pigs affair, right? You know he highlighted that at the beginning of his speech when he said: "I want to talk about our common responsibilities in the face of a common danger. The events of recent weeks may have helped to illuminate that challenge for some, but the dimensions of its threat have loomed large on the horizon for many years."

You know he was talking about the Soviets and communism in general, right?

So let me get this straight - in order to defend your ever-more ludicrous position on Covid-19, ie: that it is a global conspiracy rather than a global health crisis, you're now relying on quotes from a US President who died in 1963 and whose words you're using completely out of context?

Can you get any more desperate?

I was interested in your assertion that I "receive a slapping then come back for more of the same."

When did this slapping occur, pray tell? I must have missed it.

I noted your claim Covid-19 is just the flu, which it isn't. I recall your suggestion that the virus only kills Asian people, which it doesn't. I recall your hilarious evidence of a government conspiracy, which turned out to be a guidance document on the Gov.UK website which had been amended a couple of weeks earlier (in my professional capacity, I amended another document on those very web pages this very day, shock horror!). And probably funniest of all, I remember your insane claim that influenza is never described by anyone as a virus, which is absolute balderdash (pardon the pun). But a slapping? I don't recall that at all.

I think you've imagined it, old boy. But then your imagination does seem somewhat fertile, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

That's right, and he was going to "splinter the KGB in a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds".

[The Lone Gunman]

That's right, and he was going to "splinter the KGB in a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds".

The CIA, not the KGB. But only allegedly. The words posthumously attributed to JFK are not verified.

[Organ Morgan.]

You are right - I have accepted that social distancing has reduced the virus spread and saved lives. I accept there could be a counter argument if those places that didn't introduce it (Sweden, Belarus... have they stuck with the herd strategy?) show no greater levels of infection than the rest of the world - but I don't think you have made that case.

Your third paragraph is basically an argument in favour of drink driving! Libertarianism at its' most selfish and dangerous.

I interpret your last line to mean that because Parliament recently passed legislation which made the breaking of social distancing measures an arrestable offence then to do so would be the equivalent of driving while sozzled. Jesus, have you lost your mind?

[Organ Morgan.]

Good grief.....

You know that JFK gave this address to the press association just a week after the Bay of Pigs affair, right? You know he highlighted that at the beginning of his speech when he said: "I want to talk about our common responsibilities in the face of a common danger. The events of recent weeks may have helped to illuminate that challenge for some, but the dimensions of its threat have loomed large on the horizon for many years."

You know he was talking about the Soviets and communism in general, right?

So let me get this straight - in order to defend your ever-more ludicrous position on Covid-19, ie: that it is a global conspiracy rather than a global health crisis, you're now relying on quotes from a US President who died in 1963 and whose words you're using completely out of context?

Can you get any more desperate?

I was interested in your assertion that I "receive a slapping then come back for more of the same."

When did this slapping occur, pray tell? I must have missed it.

I noted your claim Covid-19 is just the flu, which it isn't. I recall your suggestion that the virus only kills Asian people, which it doesn't. I recall your hilarious evidence of a government conspiracy, which turned out to be a guidance document on the Gov.UK website which had been amended a couple of weeks earlier (in my professional capacity, I amended another document on those very web pages this very day, shock horror!). And probably funniest of all, I remember your insane claim that influenza is never described by anyone as a virus, which is absolute balderdash (pardon the pun). But a slapping? I don't recall that at all.

I think you've imagined it, old boy. But then your imagination does seem somewhat fertile, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Slicing through the waffle, you're dismissive of conspiracy theories you don't like the sound of but you can readily accept a conspiracy theory is true when absent of any proof or evidence to support the claim providing it's 'monolithic' in scale? Or perhaps monolithic isn't enough to convince you though characterising it as 'ruthless' too does the trick? Maybe, just maybe, monolithic and ruthless isn't satisfactory to gain a thumbs-up from you; it requires further totally unsubstantiated assertions like 'vast human and material resources' to have been conscripted to meet your credibility threshold? I'll ensure the breadth of any conspiracy theory I may advance in future will be so gargantuan you'll be certain to lend it your support.

The address plainly related to the Soviet Union because of the reference to the Cold War. It went deeper though with that mention of secret societies. Virtually all the hundreds of commenters where the video is hosted - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-AZ...ature=youtu.be - picked up on what passed you by. I'm less than surprised.

[The Lone Gunman]

Slicing through the waffle, you're dismissive of conspiracy theories you don't like the sound of but you can readily accept a conspiracy theory is true when absent of any proof or evidence to support the claim providing it's 'monolithic' in scale? Or perhaps monolithic isn't enough to convince you though characterising it as 'ruthless' too does the trick? Maybe, just maybe, monolithic and ruthless isn't satisfactory to gain a thumbs-up from you; it requires further totally unsubstantiated assertions like 'vast human and material resources' to have been conscripted to meet your credibility threshold? I'll ensure the breadth of any conspiracy theory I may advance in future will be so gargantuan you'll be certain to lend it your support.

What on earth are you gibbering about this time? What conspiracy theory have I readily accepted?

[jon1959]

I interpret your last line to mean that because Parliament recently passed legislation which made the breaking of social distancing measures an arrestable offence then to do so would be the equivalent of driving while sozzled. Jesus, have you lost your mind?

A bizarre interpretation! You said:

'I'm for allowing people to do what they wish; whether they choose to gather or not let them decide what they believe is best for themselves rather than by government diktat'.

Allowing people who may be highly infectious (may be asymptomatic or pre-sypmtomatic) to wander around as they wish because they think that is best for them - and by doing so putting many other people at risk of infection, serious illness, pain and maybe death - is the same mindset that finds no problem with drink driving. If they were only going to injure or kill themselves (leaving aside the cost and disruption of cleaning up and disposing of their mess) that is one thing - but they don't. It is selfish and dangerous!

[Organ Morgan.]

This BBC article caught my interest yesterday: Government pays nearly quarter of worker wages https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52539203

It says the state's paying 80% of the wages of 6.3 million furloughed workers. It's also paying 1.8 million new Universal Credit claimants. It quotes Sunak claiming it's "not sustainable".

But it is because in late March he visited the Bank of England to exit the building with £210 billion in new QE for him to spend which was created from nothing whatsoever.

This is the BoE webpage https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/mone...itative-easing which confirms Rishi's windfall and that the total QE magicked into existence since 2009 stands at £645 billion.

[Organ Morgan.]

Pasted below is Sunak's March 17th statement where he repeated parrot-like the words "whatever it takes" for anyone who's half awake to understand he's prepared to reduce the purchasing power of the pound to that of a Banana Republic's currency to delay for as long as possible what will be a total economic collapse. It seems roaring inflation will appear first in food prices and is likely the reason Universal Credit claimants have been handed a £20 per week benefit increase for the next year as it's they and other people on a small income who will feel the pain most and be first to turn to criminality to feed themselves and families.

Rishi Sunak: we will do whatever it takes to support the economy during the crisis:-

The coronavirus pandemic is a public health emergency. But it is also an economic emergency. We have never, in peacetime, faced an economic fight like this one.

I know that people are deeply worried. I know that people’s anxiety about the disease itself is matched only by their anxiety about their livelihoods.

Last week, I set out an initial economic response in the Budget.

I promised to do whatever it takes to support our economy through this crisis – and that if the situation changed, I would not hesitate to take further action. That is what I want to begin doing today.

This struggle will not be overcome by a single package of measures, or isolated interventions. It will be won through a collective national effort. Every one of us, doing all we can to protect families, neighbours, friends, jobs.

This national effort will be underpinned by government interventions in the economy on a scale unimaginable only a few weeks ago. This is not a time for ideology and orthodoxy. This is a time to be bold. A time for courage.

I want to reassure every British citizen, this government will give you all the tools you need to get through this.

We will support jobs, we will support incomes, we will support businesses, and we will help you protect your loved ones. We will do whatever it takes.

In the Budget last week, I set out the first stage of our economic response with a £30 billion package of support for people and businesses.

But I also said in the Budget that as the situation evolves, we would take further action.

And as the Prime Minister set out yesterday, we’re now approaching the fast growth part of the upwards curve. He has set out the next stage of our public health response.

So I wanted to update everyone on the next stage of our economic response.

First, the government will stand behind businesses small and large.

I can announce today an unprecedented package of government-backed and guaranteed loans to support businesses to get through this.

Today, I am making available an initial £330 billion of guarantees – equivalent to 15% of our GDP.

That means any business who needs access to cash to pay their rent, the salaries, suppliers, or purchase stock, will be able to access a government-backed loan, on attractive terms.

And if demand is greater than the initial £330 billion I’m making available today, I will go further and provide as much capacity as required.

I said whatever it takes –and I meant it.

That support will be delivered through two main schemes:

to support liquidity amongst larger firms, I have today agreed a new lending facility with the Governor of the Bank of England to provide low cost, easily accessible commercial paper

to support lending to small and medium sized businesses, I am extending the new Business Interruption Loan Scheme I announced at the Budget last week, so that rather than loans of £1.2 million, it will now provide loans of up to £5 million, with no interest due for the first six months

Both of these schemes will be up and running by the start of next week.

And I am also taking a new legal power in the Covid Bill to offer whatever further financial support I decide is necessary.

Some sectors are facing particularly acute challenges. In the coming days, my colleague the Secretary of State for Transport and I will discuss a potential support package for specifically airlines and airports.

And yesterday, I asked my Cabinet colleagues to urgently convene meetings over the coming days with business leaders and representatives in the most affected sectors, to identify other specific opportunities to support them and their industries, including possible regulatory forbearance.

I repeat: we will do whatever it takes.

Second, as well as access to finance, businesses need support with their cashflow and fixed costs.

Following the changed medical advice yesterday, there are concerns about the impact on pubs, clubs, theatres and other hospitality, leisure and retail venues.

Let me confirm that, for those businesses which do have a policy that covers pandemics, the government’s action is sufficient and will allow businesses to make an insurance claim against their policy.

But many of those businesses don’t have insurance – so we will go further.

I announced last week that for businesses in the retail, hospitality and leisure sectors, with a rateable value of less than £51,000, they will pay no business rates this year.

Today, I can go further and provide those businesses with an additional cash grant of up to £25,000 per business – to help bridge through this period.

Additionally, I also am today extending the business rates holiday to all businesses in those sectors, irrespective of their rateable value.

That means every single shop, pub, theatre, music venue, restaurant - and any other business in the retail, hospitality or leisure sector – will pay no business rates whatsoever for 12 months, and if they have a rateable value of less than £51,000, they can now get a cash grant as well.

I also announced last week that we would be providing £3,000 cash grants to the 700,000 of our smallest businesses.

In light of the new circumstances, and to support their cash flow, today I can increase those grants to £10,000.

Taken together, on top of the unlimited lending capacity I have already announced, this is a package of tax cuts and grants, in this financial year, worth more than £20 billion.

That comes on top of the existing multi-billion-pound package I set out at Budget, which included reimbursing small and medium sized companies for the cost of statutory sick pay.

Local authorities in England will be fully compensated for the costs of these measures, and the devolved administrations will receive at least £3.5 billion in additional funding as a result to provide support to businesses in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

I repeat again: we will do whatever it takes.

Third, I will strengthen our support for peoples and individuals.

At Budget last week, I committed £1 billion to support the financial security of vulnerable people, through a half billion boost to the welfare system, and a half billion pound Hardship Fund for Local Authorities.

Following discussions with industry today, I can announce that for those in difficulty due to coronavirus, mortgage lenders will offer at least a three month mortgage holiday – so that people will not have to pay a penny towards their mortgage while they get back on their feet.

And in the coming days, I will go much further to support people’s financial security. In particular, I will work with trade unions and business groups to urgently develop new forms of employment support to help protect people’s jobs and incomes through this period.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Pasted below is Sunak's March 17th statement where he repeated parrot-like the words "whatever it takes" for anyone who's half awake to understand he's prepared to reduce the purchasing power of the pound to that of a Banana Republic's currency to delay for as long as possible what will be a total economic collapse. It seems roaring inflation will appear first in food prices and is likely the reason Universal Credit claimants have been handed a £20 per week benefit increase for the next year as it's they and other people on a small income who will feel the pain most and be first to turn to criminality to feed themselves and families.

Rishi Sunak: we will do whatever it takes to support the economy during the crisis:-

The coronavirus pandemic is a public health emergency. But it is also an economic emergency. We have never, in peacetime, faced an economic fight like this one.

I know that people are deeply worried. I know that people’s anxiety about the disease itself is matched only by their anxiety about their livelihoods.

Last week, I set out an initial economic response in the Budget.

I promised to do whatever it takes to support our economy through this crisis – and that if the situation changed, I would not hesitate to take further action. That is what I want to begin doing today.

This struggle will not be overcome by a single package of measures, or isolated interventions. It will be won through a collective national effort. Every one of us, doing all we can to protect families, neighbours, friends, jobs.

This national effort will be underpinned by government interventions in the economy on a scale unimaginable only a few weeks ago. This is not a time for ideology and orthodoxy. This is a time to be bold. A time for courage.

I want to reassure every British citizen, this government will give you all the tools you need to get through this.

We will support jobs, we will support incomes, we will support businesses, and we will help you protect your loved ones. We will do whatever it takes.

In the Budget last week, I set out the first stage of our economic response with a £30 billion package of support for people and businesses.

But I also said in the Budget that as the situation evolves, we would take further action.

And as the Prime Minister set out yesterday, we’re now approaching the fast growth part of the upwards curve. He has set out the next stage of our public health response.

So I wanted to update everyone on the next stage of our economic response.

First, the government will stand behind businesses small and large.

I can announce today an unprecedented package of government-backed and guaranteed loans to support businesses to get through this.

Today, I am making available an initial £330 billion of guarantees – equivalent to 15% of our GDP.

That means any business who needs access to cash to pay their rent, the salaries, suppliers, or purchase stock, will be able to access a government-backed loan, on attractive terms.

And if demand is greater than the initial £330 billion I’m making available today, I will go further and provide as much capacity as required.

I said whatever it takes –and I meant it.

That support will be delivered through two main schemes:

to support liquidity amongst larger firms, I have today agreed a new lending facility with the Governor of the Bank of England to provide low cost, easily accessible commercial paper

to support lending to small and medium sized businesses, I am extending the new Business Interruption Loan Scheme I announced at the Budget last week, so that rather than loans of £1.2 million, it will now provide loans of up to £5 million, with no interest due for the first six months

Both of these schemes will be up and running by the start of next week.

And I am also taking a new legal power in the Covid Bill to offer whatever further financial support I decide is necessary.

Some sectors are facing particularly acute challenges. In the coming days, my colleague the Secretary of State for Transport and I will discuss a potential support package for specifically airlines and airports.

And yesterday, I asked my Cabinet colleagues to urgently convene meetings over the coming days with business leaders and representatives in the most affected sectors, to identify other specific opportunities to support them and their industries, including possible regulatory forbearance.

I repeat: we will do whatever it takes.

Second, as well as access to finance, businesses need support with their cashflow and fixed costs.

Following the changed medical advice yesterday, there are concerns about the impact on pubs, clubs, theatres and other hospitality, leisure and retail venues.

Let me confirm that, for those businesses which do have a policy that covers pandemics, the government’s action is sufficient and will allow businesses to make an insurance claim against their policy.

But many of those businesses don’t have insurance – so we will go further.

I announced last week that for businesses in the retail, hospitality and leisure sectors, with a rateable value of less than £51,000, they will pay no business rates this year.

Today, I can go further and provide those businesses with an additional cash grant of up to £25,000 per business – to help bridge through this period.

Additionally, I also am today extending the business rates holiday to all businesses in those sectors, irrespective of their rateable value.

That means every single shop, pub, theatre, music venue, restaurant - and any other business in the retail, hospitality or leisure sector – will pay no business rates whatsoever for 12 months, and if they have a rateable value of less than £51,000, they can now get a cash grant as well.

I also announced last week that we would be providing £3,000 cash grants to the 700,000 of our smallest businesses.

In light of the new circumstances, and to support their cash flow, today I can increase those grants to £10,000.

Taken together, on top of the unlimited lending capacity I have already announced, this is a package of tax cuts and grants, in this financial year, worth more than £20 billion.

That comes on top of the existing multi-billion-pound package I set out at Budget, which included reimbursing small and medium sized companies for the cost of statutory sick pay.

Local authorities in England will be fully compensated for the costs of these measures, and the devolved administrations will receive at least £3.5 billion in additional funding as a result to provide support to businesses in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

I repeat again: we will do whatever it takes.

Third, I will strengthen our support for peoples and individuals.

At Budget last week, I committed £1 billion to support the financial security of vulnerable people, through a half billion boost to the welfare system, and a half billion pound Hardship Fund for Local Authorities.

Following discussions with industry today, I can announce that for those in difficulty due to coronavirus, mortgage lenders will offer at least a three month mortgage holiday – so that people will not have to pay a penny towards their mortgage while they get back on their feet.

And in the coming days, I will go much further to support people’s financial security. In particular, I will work with trade unions and business groups to urgently develop new forms of employment support to help protect people’s jobs and incomes through this period.

I asked this on another thread but you probably missed it:

FAO Organ Morgan:

In respect of the Coronavirus situation: what made you change your suspicion from the Chinese government possibly infecting its own population to kill off the elderly to the New World Order theory?

[Organ Morgan.]

It struck me that it was a relatively mild new virus and the purpose of them shutting down large areas of their economy and locking down 600M+ of their citizens to limit deaths to 4K was designed to allow a great many other countries to do similar in order to imitate China's success.

I'd love to know what the punchline to all this business is.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

It struck me that it was a relatively mild new virus and the purpose of them shutting down large areas of their economy and locking down 600M+ of their citizens to limit deaths to 4K was designed to allow a great many other countries to do similar in order to imitate China's success.

I'd love to know what the punchline to all this business is.

But that ignores your initial suspicion that it was to cull the elderly Chinese by their own government, doesn't it?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

But that ignores your initial suspicion that it was to cull the elderly Chinese by their own government, doesn't it?

No answer was the gay reply.

[Wales-Bales]

But that ignores your initial suspicion that it was to cull the elderly Chinese by their own government, doesn't it?

An intuitive person's position would naturally evolve over time, unless their thoughts were being manipulated by a subset of the media.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

No answer was the gay reply.

[The Lone Gunman]

What on earth are you gibbering about this time? What conspiracy theory have I readily accepted?

Well?

[trampie09]

Boris and his rich supporters favour wealth over health, that is why the health service has declined over the years and we were in such a state during this coronavirus crisis with a lack of doctors, nurses, intensive care beds, ventilators, PPE, testing kits etc etc.

[life on mars]

Boris and his rich supporters favour wealth over health, that is why the health service has declined over the years and we were in such a state during this coronavirus crisis with a lack of doctors, nurses, intensive care beds, ventilators, PPE, testing kits etc etc.

So if he fixes the NHS is he in power for a very long time

[trampie09]

So if he fixes the NHS is he in power for a very long time

English people have the weight of numbers and they vote for Boris in their droves.

[life on mars]

English people have the weight of numbers and they vote for Boris in their droves.

So if he destroys the NHS is he in power because there's more English people. ?

God help Wales, no matter what shit show they produce , Labour is always in power.

[life on mars]

A bizarre interpretation! You said:

'I'm for allowing people to do what they wish; whether they choose to gather or not let them decide what they believe is best for themselves rather than by government diktat'.

Allowing people who may be highly infectious (may be asymptomatic or pre-sypmtomatic) to wander around as they wish because they think that is best for them - and by doing so putting many other people at risk of infection, serious illness, pain and maybe death - is the same mindset that finds no problem with drink driving. If they were only going to injure or kill themselves (leaving aside the cost and disruption of cleaning up and disposing of their mess) that is one thing - but they don't. It is selfish and dangerous!

Very Farage, Cummings and Trump of you ( 'I'm for allowing people to do what they wish; whether they choose to gather or not let them decide what they believe is best for themselves rather than by government diktat'.)

Boris early on in this crisis and Trump were very vocal about self responsibility in line with his libertarian stance He was then pressured by the media , opposition, scientists , his own arrogance on this matter took its toll on him, and he contracted Covid.

In my view your thoughts are fine in some form of false utopia where folk think they are free like North Korea , China , Russia where a gun is pointed at you or prison is threatened, your liberatarin stance would deliver more death , as UK citizens have to be told what to do unfortunately.

Boris is now considering stricter flight restrictions (bit late in my view ) the backlash us already there to be heard?? . You can't win

Boris will today provide a partial approach to your wish (allowing people to do what they wish), guess what he us already he is being criticised for this slight relaxation of peoples freedom of choice, let's hope you voice your support for the folk "let them decide "

[life on mars]

Very Farage, Cummings and Trump of you ( 'I'm for allowing people to do what they wish; whether they choose to gather or not let them decide what they believe is best for themselves rather than by government diktat'.)

Boris early on in this crisis and Trump were very vocal about self responsibility in line with his libertarian stance He was then pressured by the media , opposition, scientists , his own arrogance on this matter took its toll on him, and he contracted Covid.

In my view your thoughts are fine in some form of false utopia where folk think they are free like North Korea , China , Russia where a gun is pointed at you or prison is threatened, your liberatarin stance would deliver more death , as UK citizens have to be told what to do unfortunately.

Boris is now considering stricter flight restrictions (bit late in my view ) the backlash us already there to be heard?? . You can't win

Boris will today provide a partial approach to your wish (allowing people to do what they wish), guess what he us already he is being criticised for this slight relaxation of peoples freedom of choice, let's hope you voice your support for the folk "let them decide "

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...share_btn_link

[Heisenberg]

Very Farage, Cummings and Trump of you ( 'I'm for allowing people to do what they wish; whether they choose to gather or not let them decide what they believe is best for themselves rather than by government diktat'.)

Boris early on in this crisis and Trump were very vocal about self responsibility in line with his libertarian stance He was then pressured by the media , opposition, scientists , his own arrogance on this matter took its toll on him, and he contracted Covid.

In my view your thoughts are fine in some form of false utopia where folk think they are free like North Korea , China , Russia where a gun is pointed at you or prison is threatened, your liberatarin stance would deliver more death , as UK citizens have to be told what to do unfortunately.

Boris is now considering stricter flight restrictions (bit late in my view ) the backlash us already there to be heard?? . You can't win

Boris will today provide a partial approach to your wish (allowing people to do what they wish), guess what he us already he is being criticised for this slight relaxation of peoples freedom of choice, let's hope you voice your support for the folk "let them decide "

I know you often think we take the piss out of you because you're dyslexic, but it's not, it's absolutely not.

It's for posts like this where you've got all of the information you need to write a response and you've just said all of those things to Jon instead of Organ.

Despite Jon clearly saying in his post that Organ had written 'I'm for allowing people to do what they wish; whether they choose to gather or not let them decide what they believe is best for themselves rather than by government diktat'... You've attributed the quote to Jon himself.

You owe Jon an apology and it's Organ you need to take your angst out on (never going to happen as he's one of your little crushes along with Gluey and Ronnie Bird).

Organ has moaned on every Covid thread about his civil liberties being taken away, yet you ignore all of them and wrongly criticise Jon for the same stance (which he doesn't even hold).

Dyslexic or not, you're not good at this.

[life on mars]

I know you often think we take the piss out of you because you're dyslexic, but it's not, it's absolutely not.

It's for posts like this where you've got all of the information you need to write a response and you've just said all of those things to Jon instead of Organ.

Despite Jon clearly saying in his post that Organ had written 'I'm for allowing people to do what they wish; whether they choose to gather or not let them decide what they believe is best for themselves rather than by government diktat'... You've attributed the quote to Jon himself.

You owe Jon an apology and it's Organ you need to take your angst out on (never going to happen as he's one of your little crushes along with Gluey and Ronnie Bird).

Organ has moaned on every Covid thread about his civil liberties being taken away, yet you ignore all of them and wrongly criticise Jon for the same stance (which he doesn't even hold).



Dyslexic or not, you're not good at this.

Oooops, apologies thought John had written it, Organ your so wrong on this ,thanks Heinsburg for head up ,I do struggle I m never going to quit , or let this fecking Dyslexic beat me . 👍

[Heisenberg]

Oooops, apologies thought John had written it, Organ your so wrong on this ,thanks Heinsburg for head up ,I do struggle I m never going to quit , or let this fecking Dyslexic beat me . 👍

👍