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Thread: UK Covid-19 death figures

  1. #26

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Seems to be a bit of controversy brewing regarding the Covid-19 death figures that Matt Hancock reported during today's daily briefing.

    This evening, Hancock told the public an additional 111 people have died with Covid-19, taking the overall figure to 39,045. However, he neglected to mention that yesterday's reported figure was 38,489, meaning the overall figure has in fact increased by 556. The new figure apparently includes an historical correction of an additional 445 deaths.

    Whether this omission from Hancock was deliberate or not is open to debate. However, the new figures only serve to further highlight just how poorly the UK governments have dealt with this pandemic.

    The current figures for the major European countries are as follows:

    39,045 - UK
    33,475 - Italy
    28,833 - France
    27,127 - Spain
    9,486 - Belgium
    8,618 - Germany
    5,962 - Netherlands
    4,855 - Russia
    4,403 - Sweden
    1,650 - Ireland


    Regardless of any political allegiances, those UK numbers are shocking.
    One consequence of those additional 445 deaths is that there is every chance that the rolling seven day average figure on the graph they show every day will rise and, no matter how people try to spin it, that is not a good look - especially in a country that is supposed to be coming out of lockdown. As it is, the rolling average had more or less become a straight line anyway. Although the daily new cases figure is declining and this should be reflected in the death figures in the next week or two, it is doing so very slowly - that's why any attempts to talk up the UK's response to the virus in the daily briefings looks pathetic and insulting to the population as far I'm concerned.

  2. #27

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    For those who still want to see things in party political terms, I'll say that the figures in Wales are dreadful (six out of the top ten worst districts for rate of infection according to this

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...cases-near-you

    and getting worse it would appear when compared to other areas of the country). Therefore, like many left leaning contributors on here, I have no problem with being critical of Welsh Labour, because, while there is evidence in those figures that the danger is easing in the other countries in the UK, it looks like Wales is stuck and so it would be stupid to slavishly defend the Welsh Government.

    However, I do have some sympathy with Drakeford and co because we are not truly independent. If we were, it would be a different matter, but, in some respects, the Welsh Government is having to tackle the virus with one hand tied behind its back because it is still beholding to the UK Government. That's why, if we are playing the blame game, I still hold the UK Government more responsible for the high figures in this country.



    Also, as pointed out earlier in this thread, the Ferguson modelling was a projection of what would have happened if there had been no intervention from Government (in essence, if we had relied on herd immunity and just allowed the virus to have run its course). Its relevance stemmed from the fact it seems to be the one single thing that persuaded the UK Government to ignore advice advocating a herd immunity approach, but, once that decision was taken, it became irrelevant straight away because it referred to a set of circumstances that no longer applied.
    I agree the figures in Wales are terrible, but don't agree that we can blame the UK Government in part. Health is devolved and Wales seemed determined to do its own thing, as did Scotland and N Ireland. From the start we lagged behind in testing and are still way off the 5,000 a day promised in the early days.
    Drakeford rightly announced that industrial South Wales was at particular risk, but then did nothing about it. Now he has the cheek to say Tracking and Tracing is up and running but not just yet because the IT is not quite right.

    Our 5 colour zone plan on easing seems sensible but we are all over the place with it so it no longer makes any sense at all.

    The latest easing guidance is confusing especially the 5 mile rule. There are clear hot spots in Wales..RCT, NE Wales, Cardiff...so we can meet up more, but because of the travel restrictions if we live in a hot spot we can only meet in the hot spot. A recipe for escalation.

    On TV news last night I saw the frustration of car showroom owners who can't understand why they remain shut, fearing they will lose business to England. Car showrooms are not like supermarkets crowded with shoppers, and the owners say it's not difficult to ensure customers are kept safe.

    I think the people of Wales have been generally great at compliance with the guidance. All along we have been hindered by a Senedd that is out of its depth, and a public health system that has been slow off the mark and not fit for purpose.

  3. #28

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Crumbs off the table.

  4. #29

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Yes, but that estimate was if no lockdown was enforced and no social distancing rules were applied. So a bit different. A worst-case scenario if the government did nothing and just let the virus run.
    People aren’t that stupid though, although we do seem to have more here than in say Sweden, which as we all know had no lockdown but does have SD. Interesting that a Norway now think there lockdown might have been too severe and done more harm than good.

  5. #30

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Quote Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO View Post
    It's not a contest. Whether Italy have 60,000 deaths, or 200 doesn't alter the fact that 40,000 deaths have been attributed to the virus in this country and, in reality, is likely to be more.
    I'm not saying it is a contest. I'm saying making comparisons is difficult because the way numbers have been recorded are different.

  6. #31

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    i think these daily updates have been the boris bullshit channel

  7. #32

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Quote Originally Posted by goats View Post
    People aren’t that stupid though, although we do seem to have more here than in say Sweden, which as we all know had no lockdown but does have SD. Interesting that a Norway now think there lockdown might have been too severe and done more harm than good.
    Why is that interesting?

  8. #33

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Quote Originally Posted by goats View Post
    People aren’t that stupid though, although we do seem to have more here than in say Sweden, which as we all know had no lockdown but does have SD. Interesting that a Norway now think there lockdown might have been too severe and done more harm than good.
    Sweden has the highest death rate per capita at one point

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...te-per-capita/

    Their society is more naturally socially distanced than ours too which is why it wasn't worse.

  9. #34

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Quote Originally Posted by Welshcake. View Post
    I'm not saying it is a contest. I'm saying making comparisons is difficult because the way numbers have been recorded are different.
    ^^^^^This!
    If the figures of deaths since early March are compared with the average number in previous years for the same period, England has had around 60,000 more deaths during this period than usual.

  10. #35

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    I agree the figures in Wales are terrible, but don't agree that we can blame the UK Government in part.
    Really? I'm amazed.....

    The assertion that the UK government doesn't share the blame for the Covid-19 situation in Wales is so mind-numbingly stupid it doesn't warrant a proper response. It's almost on a par with the rubbish you wrote about your proposed shopping trip to Brecon, but not quite.

  11. #36

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Really? I'm amazed.....

    The assertion that the UK government doesn't share the blame for the Covid-19 situation in Wales is so mind-numbingly stupid it doesn't warrant a proper response. It's almost on a par with the rubbish you wrote about your proposed shopping trip to Brecon, but not quite.

    If something is devolved it means...and Im sure you know this... that the responsibility has been passed on...ie to the Senedd

    If the Senedd chooses to be led by England then it does not take away the fact that the Senedd holds total responsibility for our healthcare. Nothing to do with England or the rest of the UK

    So I think it may not be me that is mind numbingly stupid. Don't let our Welsh politicians fob you off by thinking that Westminster is somehow to share the blame for the mess it has got us in.

  12. #37
    Heisenberg
    Guest

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    If something is devolved it means...and Im sure you know this... that the responsibility has been passed on...ie to the Senedd

    If the Senedd chooses to be led by England then it does not take away the fact that the Senedd holds total responsibility for our healthcare. Nothing to do with England or the rest of the UK

    So I think it may not be me that is mind numbingly stupid. Don't let our Welsh politicians fob you off by thinking that Westminster is somehow to share the blame for the mess it has got us in.
    Westminster were responsible for the ridiculous delays in announcing the lockdown, which is one the biggest causes in the spread of Covid-19 and leading to so many avoidable deaths.

    They hold all of the blame on that account, I'm sure you'll agr... Nope, what am I thinking. You wouldn't dare hold them responsible for that.

  13. #38

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Westminster were responsible for the ridiculous delays in announcing the lockdown, which is one the biggest causes in the spread of Covid-19 and leading to so many avoidable deaths.

    They hold all of the blame on that account, I'm sure you'll agr... Nope, what am I thinking. You wouldn't dare hold them responsible for that.
    Wales could have, should have, made their own decisions on lockdown. Small European countries went ahead. It doesn't sit easy but we have our own Public Health system, our own Medical officers and Scientific advisors, and our own parliament. if overall they decided to wait for England to declare lockdown or go with a UK position before acting then that's the Senedd's decision and their responsibility.
    Nothing at all to do with England, Scotland or Northern Ireland

  14. #39
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    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    Wales could have, should have, made their own decisions on lockdown. Small European countries went ahead. It doesn't sit easy but we have our own Public Health system, our own Medical officers and Scientific advisors, and our own parliament. if overall they decided to wait for England to declare lockdown or go with a UK position before acting then that's the Senedd's decision and their responsibility.
    Nothing at all to do with England, Scotland or Northern Ireland
    Wales locking down without England locking down would have been incredibly ineffective in my opinion. Firstly, we would have the cases of people crossing the border for work purposes. People would still be arriving in large numbers from England to Welsh beauty spots. Also, there would have been no furlough scheme - the result being that retailers would be able to continue trading in their English branches, but not the Welsh. That could, arguably, have led to shops being closed, and people being made redundant in large numbers.

  15. #40

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    Wales could have, should have, made their own decisions on lockdown. Small European countries went ahead. It doesn't sit easy but we have our own Public Health system, our own Medical officers and Scientific advisors, and our own parliament. if overall they decided to wait for England to declare lockdown or go with a UK position before acting then that's the Senedd's decision and their responsibility.
    Nothing at all to do with England, Scotland or Northern Ireland
    Wales couldn't do anything on there own until the covid act was passed through Parliament.
    Which was delayed because Johnson had his thumb stuck up his arse for ages.

  16. #41

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    I don't understand why anyone would be trying so hard to absolve the government of all blame.

  17. #42

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I don't understand why anyone would be trying so hard to absolve the government of all blame.
    That's what people do now, they vote for a side then have to back them and defend them on every decision. I can't understand it but it seems to be huge in politics these days.

  18. #43

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    That's what people do now, they vote for a side then have to back them and defend them on every decision. I can't understand it but it seems to be huge in politics these days.
    Explains why the Conservatives are still polling at forty per cent plus even after Dominic Cummings' eye test - some people still think Brexit is the most important thing out there at the moment it seems.

  19. #44

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Quote Originally Posted by insider View Post
    Wales couldn't do anything on there own until the covid act was passed through Parliament.
    Which was delayed because Johnson had his thumb stuck up his arse for ages.
    The act covered lots of day to day things, like retired doctors re-registering etc, but the Senedd was free to do whatever in strategic healthcare issues, including its own lockdown. Whether it would have been practical, I don’t know. Buts let’s stop blaming Westminster for the Senedd decisions, or lack of.

  20. #45

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Jesus Lisvaneblue you’re not supposed to deep throat the boot

  21. #46

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    That's what people do now, they vote for a side then have to back them and defend them on every decision. I can't understand it but it seems to be huge in politics these days.
    At the end of the day the Senedd is 100% responsible for healthcare in Wales. Westminster has no responsibility for it at all.

    Decisions or lack of, following or working with the other home nations, going it alone are down to the Senedd. I’m not defending Boris, just saying that in Wales it,s our governments responsibility not his

  22. #47

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    The act covered lots of day to day things, like retired doctors re-registering etc, but the Senedd was free to do whatever in strategic healthcare issues, including its own lockdown. Whether it would have been practical, I don’t know. Buts let’s stop blaming Westminster for the Senedd decisions, or lack of.
    So how could people be kept off the street and in Lockdown without the act then?

  23. #48

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Quote Originally Posted by lisvaneblue View Post
    At the end of the day the Senedd is 100% responsible for healthcare in Wales. Westminster has no responsibility for it at all.

    Decisions or lack of, following or working with the other home nations, going it alone are down to the Senedd. I’m not defending Boris, just saying that in Wales it,s our governments responsibility not his
    But the majority of deaths were caused because the whole of the U.K. didn’t lockdown soon enough. Were wales able to do that without parliament agreeing?

  24. #49
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    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Testing and lockdown timings I'm sure are likely to be key in the review in both England and Wales, Welsh Assembly had the ability to act differently ,as they are now ,where is the testing now in Wales ??

  25. #50

    Re: UK Covid-19 death figures

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Explains why the Conservatives are still polling at forty per cent plus even after Dominic Cummings' eye test - some people still think Brexit is the most important thing out there at the moment it seems.
    Too true and the other thing is..once a Tory, always Tory; I'm alright Jack

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