This government is a complete shambles

[Vindec]

Nice rebuttal.

Shall I explain your own post to you?

Your post was entirely about Sludge and the other Labour voters on here who see only good in Labour and bad in the Tories:

"They simply can't accept that Labour can do anything wrong. Instead people on here are treated like something on the bottom of their shoe and you only have to vote Tory a few times and you are Tory scum."

There's no nuance or balance in your post following that either. There are Conservative voters on here who are just as hyperbolic and and vitriolic as the posters you're referring to... By focussing on one side of the argument you become part of the problem.

The extreme left and extreme right as bad as each other when it comes to defending their parties and attacking their rivals. You failed to mention that.

Have I been... Vindec-ated?

I note your selective extract from my post. You conveniently omitted the following:

"The evidence is clear from the Labour Party itself. So let's stop the name calling and just let people vote how they vote without criticising individuals for their decisions.

I could vote Labour again but will have to see how things will pan out over the next 4 years. Starmer's made a good start even though I thought he was a bad choice."

There are a couple of things in there. Firstly I have been a Labour voter in the past and secondly I believe Starmer has made a good start even though his appointment defied logic given that he was the architects of one of the main reasons for Labour's failure. Political parties do make strange choices though including the decision by the Conservatives to appoint Boris.

My post doesn't therefore focus on one side of the argument as you state so you are patently wrong in your belief that I am a part of the problem. I wish you would read my entire post before sounding off.

[the other bob wilson]

I see PHE is getting the flack for much of what has gone wrong with tracking& tracing, including the farce of developing an app from scratch.

A surprise to me but apparently the Government has no authority over the independence of Public Health England.

Meanwhile at home, the Senedd has asked Ryanair to postpone its Cardiff flight(s) to Faro and Malaga on Friday as Wales still has 5 mile travel guidance in place, and travellers will have to quarantine for 14 days on return as that's the rules in Wales.

So two days before the flight from a WAG owned airport the Senedd jumps into action.

That's pretty small beer compared to what Panorama was talking about though isn't it. This thread has just become the usual tory v labour stuff with those taking an anti labour position ignoring the findings of the Programme.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I voted tory last time, I will not do so again - however it will take some convincing to vote labour.

I think that stance will be the same for a lot of people.

Tories got in on the back of brexit, they'll leave on the back of Covid.

They have such a big majority that even with the clowns they have in at the moment , I cant see them being toppled

A massive recession and brexit going tits up , which it will , wont help the tories but i wouldnt wish 4 million on the dole just so people like me could get rid of the tories

I would rather see an alternative from the left and centre and win it with a straight bat

[Heisenberg]

I agree with you in principle but this isn't a political party, it is an independent review body that has been in existence for a very long time to do just this thing. As I said, they report about 5 years and the report is reviewed by a cross party committee chaired by the Speaker. then the government is supposed to put the proposed changes to parliament and has no power to alter or amend any part of it.

Forgive me if I have lost some trust in UK politics in the past few years.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

That's pretty small beer compared to what Panorama was talking about though isn't it. This thread has just become the usual tory v labour stuff with those taking an anti labour position ignoring the findings of the Programme.

It was a left wing programme made by left wing people , the BBC

Never mind that it exposed this governments complete balls up of the testing system

That's not important

[xsnaggle]

Forgive me if I have lost some trust in UK politics in the past few years.

I never really had any except Harold Wilson promised me a pay rise and I actually got it!!

[bigjoe]

Now, this heading could happily chug along ad-infinitum, no matter the government of the day and no need for a message body.

[Heisenberg]

I note your selective extract from my post. You conveniently omitted the following:

"The evidence is clear from the Labour Party itself. So let's stop the name calling and just let people vote how they vote without criticising individuals for their decisions.

I could vote Labour again but will have to see how things will pan out over the next 4 years. Starmer's made a good start even though I thought he was a bad choice."

There are a couple of things in there. Firstly I have been a Labour voter in the past and secondly I believe Starmer has made a good start even though his appointment defied logic given that he was the architects of one of the main reasons for Labour's failure. Political parties do make strange choices though including the decision by the Conservatives to appoint Boris.

My post doesn't therefore focus on one side of the argument as you state so you are patently wrong in your belief that I am a part of the problem. I wish you would read my entire post before sounding off.

"The evidence is clear from the Labour Party itself. So let's stop the name calling and just let people vote how they vote without criticising individuals for their decisions.

I could vote Labour again but will have to see how things will pan out over the next 4 years. Starmer's made a good start even though I thought he was a bad choice."

The whole post was slagging off Labour supporters like Sludge who are one-eyed - you make no reference to another parties voters.

Saying "So let's stop the name calling and just let people vote how they vote without criticising individuals for their decisions." in a post where your sole focus is on Labour voters doesn't help whatever argument you think you're making.

Saying that you "could vote Labour again" is irrelevant to the point you were making

I've now read the entirety of your post 3 f**king times

[xsnaggle]

"The evidence is clear from the Labour Party itself. So let's stop the name calling and just let people vote how they vote without criticising individuals for their decisions.

I could vote Labour again but will have to see how things will pan out over the next 4 years. Starmer's made a good start even though I thought he was a bad choice."

The whole post was slagging off Labour supporters like Sludge who are one-eyed - you make no reference to another parties voters.

Saying "So let's stop the name calling and just let people vote how they vote without criticising individuals for their decisions." in a post where your sole focus is on Labour voters doesn't help whatever argument you think you're making.

Saying that you "could vote Labour again" is irrelevant to the point you were making

I've now read the entirety of your post 3 f**king times

Feck you must be bored!!!!!

[Heisenberg]

Feck you must be bored!!!!!

Bored and busy at the same time. So much so that I've noticed several spelling and grammatical mistakes in my own posts when it's been too late to edit

[xsnaggle]

Bored and busy at the same time. So much so that I've noticed several spelling and grammatical mistakes in my own posts when it's been too late to edit

That's a bugger isn't it? But when they are there at least you know when you've won an argument because people start pointing them out.
Like when you typed.............................. oh never mind.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Can we all please agree that I am right

Thank you

[Vindec]

"The evidence is clear from the Labour Party itself. So let's stop the name calling and just let people vote how they vote without criticising individuals for their decisions.

I could vote Labour again but will have to see how things will pan out over the next 4 years. Starmer's made a good start even though I thought he was a bad choice."

The whole post was slagging off Labour supporters like Sludge who are one-eyed - you make no reference to another parties voters.

Saying "So let's stop the name calling and just let people vote how they vote without criticising individuals for their decisions." in a post where your sole focus is on Labour voters doesn't help whatever argument you think you're making.

Saying that you "could vote Labour again" is irrelevant to the point you were making

I've now read the entirety of your post 3 f**king times

Perhaps you should read your own post 3 times.

[xsnaggle]

Can we all please agree that I am right

Thank you

Don't be silly

[life on mars]

Hopefully Dominic Cummings will sort all this out , he dislikes governments , civil services , posh eton toffs , shirts /ties , red tape , bureaucratic nonsense , loves to purge the Sir's ( 3 gone already )

Corbyn missed a chance to align himself to him or appoint as a lot of Labour voters lapped up his Brexit view , and they and JC hate the political posh and establishments systems as does the Dom

[Heisenberg]

Perhaps you should read your own post 3 times.

OK, you win. I can't compete with that level of wit.

Your post was immensely balanced and I can't believe that I was so wrong to have questioned you; based on the actual words that you used.

[life on mars]

Perhaps you should read your own post 3 times.

he cant he is too much of a moral purists .

[the other bob wilson]

Hopefully Dominic Cummings will sort all this out , he dislikes governments , civil services , posh eton toffs , shirts /ties , red tape , bureaucratic nonsense , loves to purge the Sir's ( 3 gone already )

Corbyn missed a chance to align himself to him or appoint as a lot of Labour voters lapped up his Brexit view , and they and JC hate the political posh and establishments systems as does the Dom

[Heisenberg]

he cant he is too much of a moral purists .

You keep using that term but you don't know what it means.

Thanks for pluralising me though. Very kind. I feel very important now.

[lisvaneblue]

That's pretty small beer compared to what Panorama was talking about though isn't it. This thread has just become the usual tory v labour stuff with those taking an anti labour position ignoring the findings of the Programme.

I haven't seen the programme yet

[CardiffIrish2]

Hopefully Dominic Cummings will sort all this out , he dislikes governments , civil services , posh eton toffs , shirts /ties , red tape , bureaucratic nonsense , loves to purge the Sir's ( 3 gone already )

Corbyn missed a chance to align himself to him or appoint as a lot of Labour voters lapped up his Brexit view , and they and JC hate the political posh and establishments systems as does the Dom

Hate to shatter your eloquent thought process But Cummings literally works for an Eton Toff.

I’d think about that line of argument before posting it next time.

[Heisenberg]

Hate to shatter your eloquent thought process But Cummings literally works for an Eton Toff.

I’d think about that line of argument before posting it next time.

FTFY

[Elwood Blues]

Shes still going to get hauled in for an assessment

So welcome to tory britain

Ten years they have been in , a disabled person is awarded a benefit , after having to fill in a dreadful stressful form , more than likely attend an interview

Then forced to fill in another form and probably face another assessment to prove she isnt disabled

Who brought this increased testing in and mandatory reconsideration in ?

I will give you a clue , it was Iain Duncan Smith , tory

If you need any help riverside advice centre in cardiff are the place to go or speakeasy law centre

Good luck

We've been through the assessment Sludge.

The next one is in 2029!

That is why we had the mandatory reconsideration, because the woman who did it only gave her 10 points and standard benefit rate rather than the 12 points for the enhanced rate (they gave here the full 12 mobility, she could only walk a couple of yards at the assessment).

The mandatory reconsideration gave her the extra 2 points so she now gets full PIP. Should never have gone that far as she should have got at least 30 points by my reckoning as some of the assessment comments are a nonsense. The council and care agency care plans both clearly qualify her for extra points under the Departments own guidelines to assessors but the assessment and mandatory reconsideration both ignored this. Still 12 points is enough,but she would have had a clear case at a Tribunal if it had come to it.

It's only one form by the way although I had to write a page of notes for the mandatory reconsideration.

And as I said Labour opened the door when they brought in more testing for the ESA.

You kindly mentioned before that you knew someone who could help if we had problems and I was going to ask if she had had to go to appeal.

Luckily turned out OK in the end.

Thank you anyway.

Apologise for calling you a fool incidentally

Regards Elwood

[Elwood Blues]

Yes I did, sorry about that, but I notice you did not comment on what else I said - I think it was something like 15,000 out of almost 114,000 in the latest figures that were traced by the 25,000 new recruits.

The impression given, which seems a fair one to me, is of a Government obsessed by targets, but with little in place to co-ordinate things efficiently once they are reached.

No I didn't comment because I don't know how the contact tracing works. In particular who passes the cases to the tracers.

If is PHE then could it be that they pass the cases on to their own staff next and only pass them onto the new tracers only when their tracers have too many to cope with.

Panorama should really have gone into detail on this.

They were right to point out that details were not being passed onto hospitals and GP's was a good one and should really be done although didn't this something PHE should do.

As to the other main point as to testing being done by unqualified staff compared to Germany using Doctors and medical students,again there wasn't enough detail

Should we have more medical staff? Or is Germany's system overdoing it.

It has been known for weeks what our system is,yet I can't recall seeing any experts outside this program criticising this.


My daughter works in a care home. They are doing regularly tested but everyone, including carers like my daughter,cleaning staff and kitchen staff test themselves. Yes,there are qualified nurses there but they don't supervise the tests.

She has done four so far with no problems. I know last week's was back in 24 hours, not sure about the previous weeks and she has done this weeks today.

I saw somewhere that most countries have problems with invalid tests

Panorama didn't give any figures to show whether our accuracy of tests are better or worse than Germany. We have actually done substantially more tests than Germany at the moment, but don't know how the accuracy compares

Oh and yes the government do like their headline figures.

[life on mars]

No doubt the Welsh tests are being undertaken by highly qualified staff.

Yes been a wonderful success in our socialist utopia, we must be the envy of everyone as our education, health ,transport, business ,roads , wealth growth shocks the world .