Reply With Quote*Raises eyebrow then smirks*Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish
Nice try Monkfish.
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It's true I have voted Labour most of my life, but not entirely so - I'd say I've almost voted as much for other parties as I've voted for Labour in local, general and EU elections in the last twenty years. Also, if you were sad enough to go looking through my posts on here around early March time, you'd see my saying that I didn't want to be political when it came to the virus because the UK Government had been landed with a hell of a task, worse than anything I could remember in my lifetime.
I was also critical of the Welsh Government as well as the UK one in the spring when I had realised that it was impossible for me not to bring politics into what was happening, but, increasingly, it seems to me that Drakeford and Welsh Labour are outperforming Johnson and the Conservatives - although, as Rjk rightly points out, the latter are setting a very, very low bar.
As mentioned earlier, the present UK Government are facing a test that much more able administrations than this one would have struggled with, but has the situation changed much in the last few months when it seems to me that only a Chancellor who has had things relatively easy in so far as he has been, mainly, giving money out up to now has suggested he has the competence to succeed in a Cabinet that seems to have too many in it who have been rewarded for their loyalty to both Brexit and the Prime Minister?
I'm not naive enough to believe that we would not see instances of the sort of cronyism involving Dido Harding, her husband and Alun Cairns if there was another party running the UK, but it just seems more blatant and out in the open under this lot.
I may not have been Labour all of my life, but I have been, and always will be anti the Conservative Party. Johnson and co aren't bothered about someone like me I'm sure, but they should certainly be very concerned about what some of their friends are saying about them. For example, the Daily Mail front page has made for some very interesting reading at times during the past few months - this article, written this month, is also hardly the sort of thing you'd expect to read in that paper;-
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...R-trouble.html
*Raises eyebrow then smirks*
Nice try Monkfish.
Oddly, John Major is the one Tory PM who I had some respect for. Wouldn't have voted for them though, and a minority Government might have tempered his actions, but he speaks brilliantly on Brexit.
Johnson lives in the knowledge that he probably won't be leader at the time of the next election but his party are giving an impression of fiddling while Rome burns.
He was obviously not Tory enough for some within their party but another conservative who I always had respect for was Ken Clarke. He would’ve been an interesting Tory leader.
Just like with Labour in 2008, the Conservatives have been the victims of a situation which was out of their hands in so many ways, so it doesn't seem right to be critical about this, but it does show the size of the problem;-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53859299
Meant to reply to this earlier.
I would describe myself as a Tory voter rather than a Tory which implies a level of support for the party I do not have.
For many years I voted Liberal or SDP or Lib Dem or sometimes Tory. My Dad was a Liberal my grandfather before him even more so, he was from North Wales and really did know Lloyd George!
There is not really a plethora of parties as an alternative. The Liberals shot themselves in the foot with their ridiculous pledge to overturn the referendum result if they got into power (that went well!).
I don't see us being better of if Wales became independent sometime soon so that rules out Plaid.
Which leaves Labour. And yes despite your rather disparaging remark what about them?
I may have some reservations about the Tory performance but that does not mean I will unquestionably vote for Labour just because they have a new leader.
He has done reasonably well particularly at PMQ's where he has often tied Boris in knots, but then as a barrister and ex DPP he really should be able to speak and debate well
But Labour seem to be going back to the olf opposition for oppositions sake which to an extent I can understand but I had hoped that more constructive opposition was here to stay.
As regards your last point well yes I knew about John Penrose. I looked up Dido Harding when she was appointed to Track and Trace some weeks ago.
Then I looked him up. Took a couple of minutes.
You do an excellent quiz before games which must take considerable research.
I an surprised it took Mr Schneider to tell you about Penrose.
Incidentally I am concerned with what is revealed more than who provides the information.
Presumably your are suggesting there is something corrupt about Dido Harding's new appointment?
I knew of Penrose's connection to that organisation that has, apparently, backed privatising the NHS, but not that he was the Government's anti corruption "champion".
Is there something corrupt about Dido Harding's new appointment? I don't know, but I definitely say it is distinctly dodgy and reeks of cronyism of a type that does any political party who indulges in it no favours and it's far from the first instance of jobs for the boys/girls type appointments from a Government that is so intent on trying to centralise things.
I find your comments on the two main parties interesting. On the one hand, after the obligatory "I may have some reservations about the Tory performance", you then, presumably, excuse them completely as you tell me what is wrong with some of the non Labour alternatives who you write off completely on what seem fairly flimsy grounds to me in the case of the Lib Dems.
As for Labour, your main criticism of them appears to be the line that I heard Johnson laughably coming out with during one PMQ session that the opposition is not supporting the Government enough! My guess is that there are plenty of Labour supporters who are critical of their party for giving this Government which, even with making allowances for the crisis' that have been thrust upon them, are unusually error and u turn prone too easy a ride.
I've asked on couple of occasions on here just what is it in this Government's performance in the nine months since the election that is making 40 per cent plus of those who vote stick with them? What answers I've got back have tended to be of the "yeah, but what about Labour" type and there is of course those who still place such stall on getting Brexit "done". There is a third reason I hear from time to time which I'd say strikes me as a desperation on those who use its part not to admit they were wrong to support the Conservatives - they say the Government are trying their best and working really hard.
Really? Some of them may be, but Johnson? Working hard? I think not.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-boris-johnson
It's in the nature of things I suppose, you pick holes in the party you disapprove of's performance while ignoring or excusing equally bad or worse aspects of your own party's workings - I do the former continuously with the Tories and although not so much during this century, I tend to to go easy on the Labour party, but, truly, the amount Conservative voters have had to sweep under the carpet as they stay loyal to Johnson and co is truly breathtaking, what will it take for them to start saying enough is enough?
its just zero's though, we will never pay that amount off, so its just figures
The next job you do I suggest you don't bill the client in round numbers
You're right. It'll be left to your children and grandchildren, and maybe great-grandchildren to try to sort it out. At the end of the day there are no free lunches. Someone has to pay.
indeed
but they will just rack up debt that future generations to them will have to pay, didnt i hear on the news that we never really paid of the debt from WW2, we reduced it, but never completely paid it off
Not sure about that - think we finished paying it off in early 80's. It was the WW1 debt to the USA that we didn't pay off'. Successive Govts. conveniently 'forgot' to, hence the Yanks insistence in '39-'45 that we paid full whack for every single nut and bolt..
I don't think the UK even paid off the WW1 debt, it still owes America billions. WW2 was paid off recently.
It introduced Income Tax to pay for the Napoleonic Wars as a short term measure. The current debt is roughly about £30,000 for every man, woman and child. Brexit is going to increase the burden (even the Government admit this) further. In order to remain competitive, it seems that the Government will have to keep business taxes low and the argument is that will bring in more revenue. Unemployment is going to rise, which means lower tax revenues, and an increase in the welfare commitment.
It's looking likely that Joe Public are going to have to pay for this sooner or later. I agreed with furlough, but it was obvious (and I have seen this personally) that it would hold people back from returning to work. I always felt that furlough should have been a deferred loan scheme, in much the same way that students have to repay their debt from their future wages, because it would have satisfied the short term impact of the pandemic, and it would have prodded people to return to work. What is more likely to happen is that we all get to pay more tax (including those like me who have been lucky enough to continue working, albeit on lower wages and with no Government assistance) to pay for neighbours who have taken the piss out of the system.
UK debt is at £2tn and I don't think it will ever go below £1.5tn in our lifetimes. People always say it will be "your kids who pay for this" but, as history shows, it probably won't be.
I stand corrected, i was 1/2 paying attention to the news at the time
That hardly ties in with what we were told in the latter years of the noughties and throughout the 2010s though when we were "all in it together" when it came to balancing the books following the 2008 financial crash.
Agree 100%. Easy to wait to see what others do first, then do the same if it turns out well, and describe it as "taking the cautious approach".
That's not how he is doing it though.
and if it goes wrong, blame Boris
It is a "save your own skin" strategy, and perfect for political ends, and he has politicised this from day 1.
Never do anything first. Watch what others do and then go along behind them. And if anything goes wrong you can blame central government or the scientific advice or whatever, but never have to take any blame yourself.
It's a kind of pontius Pilate stance, but one thing it certainly isn't, and that is leadership.
Serious question, are you referring to Boris or Drakeford, perhaps both?
Drakeford, the person I replied to was discussing him, that's why. But it may apply to others of course.
Scotland 80 cases today
Wales 20
England 900 plus
Johnson does everything first. And it is working. Just ask the people who are unable to socialise at all this weekend in the North West.
Drakeford isn't following Johnson. He is following the advice of his scientific advisors, something Johnson gave up on ages ago when all the heat was focused on his master, Dominic Cummings.
Did he ever listen to scientific or medical advice?
Anyone who decided to shake hands with Covid19 patients and then funnily enough contracts the disease is let's face it fuucking twp.
Anyone who believes anything the lying cuunt says twper.
I am giving the fat twat (and I make no apologies with tens of thousands dead, and thousands of care home/NHS staff put at risk) the benefit of the doubt. I think he was forced to concede to the science in the same way that Trump was. Anyway, whatever semblance of a structured plan into and out of a lockdown quickly evaporated in the sun of Barnard's Castle.
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