Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[goats]

what do you mean shut down the NHS for mere mortals?

Well the fact they don’t plan to open it up for routine surgery’s until April apparently, I think they’ve started doing the ones that kill the most people thankfully. The car park in Heath park is still closed to the general public, it was supposedly closed for Covid but there’s no Covid there....

[goats]

More than 600 people in Swansea and Neath Port Talbot took a test and none of them had the virus.

Crikey, I wonder how many they did in Cardiff to get 14 positives?

[Rjk]

Crikey, I wonder how many they did in Cardiff to get 14 positives?

345

[Vindec]

No I'm not incorrect. Both the Welsh and the Scottish Government have the same access to Sage advice as PHE. Yes, part of their reaction might be politically driven but, let's be fair it's not too difficult to be more effective than the team of little dopes anyway, which incidentally is probably the least pragmatic administration anyone can ever remember.

There's no coincidence that the UK, US and Brazil have hugely disproportionate covid death figures per capita; all are governed by right wing zealots completely out of their death. The very fact other countries such as Germany et al have much lower death results indicates it's a gross fallacy to say no other administration could have performed better than the merry band of little dopes.

The Welsh and Scots do have the SAGE information and both governments have broadly followed the lines taken in England with tweaks around the edges all locking down at broadly the same time, the quarantine arrangements are not dissimilar and this second semi lockdown is not that dissimilar either in all 3 countries. The Welsh and Scots are consulted by the Whitehall civil servants and at government level prior to decisions being made so how come they are not doing things that differently? I disagree that the WElsh and Scots are doing better. Let's face it all are doing badly especially with regard to test and trace as I mentioned earlier. Let's leave it there as we can argue about this all afternoon and I have better things to do.

[Rjk]

The Welsh and Scots do have the SAGE information and both governments have broadly followed the lines taken in England with tweaks around the edges all locking down at broadly the same time, the quarantine arrangements are not dissimilar and this second semi lockdown is not that dissimilar either in all 3 countries. The Welsh and Scots are consulted by the Whitehall civil servants and at government level prior to decisions being made so how come they are not doing things that differently? I disagree that the WElsh and Scots are doing better. Let's face it all are doing badly especially with regard to test and trace as I mentioned earlier. Let's leave it there as we can argue about this all afternoon and I have better things to do.

Testing is (mis)managed by central government though

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Well the fact they don’t plan to open it up for routine surgery’s until April apparently, I think they’ve started doing the ones that kill the most people thankfully. The car park in Heath park is still closed to the general public, it was supposedly closed for Covid but there’s no Covid there....

Daughter-in-law works as a Facilities Manager in a Bristol hospital. She says since May - when they started to get on top of the Covid influx - the wards have been practically deserted.

[The Bloop]

Crikey, I wonder how many they did in Cardiff to get 14 positives?

345

Does the figure mean that 14 positive tests relate to tests actually carried out in Cardiff, or 14 residents of Cardiff have tested positive?

With so many being tested out of area (my wife travelled to Margam from Cardiff for a test last week), it's not that clear.

[Rjk]

Does the figure mean that 14 positive tests relate to tests actually carried out in Cardiff, or 14 residents of Cardiff have tested positive?

With so many being tested out of area (my wife travelled to Margam from Cardiff for a test last week), it's not that clear.

I'm not sure - I would guess that it was 14 residents of cardiff, otherwise you're just reporting on where the test centres are which wouldn't be very useful

[Vindec]

Testing is (mis)managed by central government though

I had to come back to correct you. The Roles of the bodies in Wales is set out in a government paper which states:

Roles and Responsibilities
Individuals – following public health advice, hand washing, social distancing, reporting symptoms and self-isolating when necessary.

Welsh Government – provide strategic direction, oversight, determine priorities and provide resources to enable test, trace, protect.

Public Health Wales (PHW) – our expert National Public Health body providing leadership and specialist advice on public health approaches. Responsible for coordinating contact tracing, advising on sampling and testing, laboratory analysis of tests, health surveillance and providing expert health protection advice and analysis of the spread of the virus in our communities through a range of health surveillance indicators.

Local health boards and local authorities – providing a wealth of contact tracing experience and working in collaboration to deliver regionally coordinated local contact tracing teams – a mix of clinical and non-clinical staff who can support those who are symptomatic or have tested positive and their close contacts to stay safe. This will sit alongside their existing role to provide testing facilities and environmental and public health responses to local outbreaks and clusters or preventative action in areas regarded as high risk.

[Dorcus]

The Welsh and Scots do have the SAGE information and both governments have broadly followed the lines taken in England with tweaks around the edges all locking down at broadly the same time, the quarantine arrangements are not dissimilar and this second semi lockdown is not that dissimilar either in all 3 countries. The Welsh and Scots are consulted by the Whitehall civil servants and at government level prior to decisions being made so how come they are not doing things that differently? I disagree that the WElsh and Scots are doing better. Let's face it all are doing badly especially with regard to test and trace as I mentioned earlier. Let's leave it there as we can argue about this all afternoon and I have better things to do.

No, you're wrong, both the Scottish and Welsh administrations are doing far better, particularly in the messaging which is key. Scotland and Wales could not have initiated a complete lockdown before the whole UK and Johnson and his merry band of little dunces were too lax and late in doing that.

Also, thankfully we haven't had the sinister exhortations down here to "get back to the office or lose your job" just to save sandwich bars. And you probably know that even getting your timing wrong by just a few days or spewing the wrong information are reasons for giving the virus more opportunity to spread; "broadly and more or less" doesn't cut it on this issue.

[Vindec]

No, you're wrong, both the Scottish and Welsh administrations are doing far better, particularly in the messaging which is key. Scotland and Wales could not have initiated a complete lockdown before the whole UK and Johnson and his merry band of little dunces were too lax and late in doing that.

Also, thankfully we haven't had the sinister exhortations down here to "get back to the office or lose your job" just to save sandwich bars. And you probably know that even getting your timing wrong by just a few days or spewing the wrong information are reasons for giving the virus more opportunity to spread; "broadly and more or less" doesn't cut it on this issue.

Oh dear! I'm not defending Johnson but this is getting rather silly. I wont confuse you further with the facts.

[Dorcus]

Oh dear! I'm not defending Johnson but this is getting rather silly. I wont confuse you further with the facts.

Lol, you're right, it's getting very silly. Please spare me, I've seen your "facts" before

[the other bob wilson]

I had to come back to correct you. The Roles of the bodies in Wales is set out in a government paper which states:

Roles and Responsibilities
Individuals – following public health advice, hand washing, social distancing, reporting symptoms and self-isolating when necessary.

Welsh Government – provide strategic direction, oversight, determine priorities and provide resources to enable test, trace, protect.

Public Health Wales (PHW) – our expert National Public Health body providing leadership and specialist advice on public health approaches. Responsible for coordinating contact tracing, advising on sampling and testing, laboratory analysis of tests, health surveillance and providing expert health protection advice and analysis of the spread of the virus in our communities through a range of health surveillance indicators.

Local health boards and local authorities – providing a wealth of contact tracing experience and working in collaboration to deliver regionally coordinated local contact tracing teams – a mix of clinical and non-clinical staff who can support those who are symptomatic or have tested positive and their close contacts to stay safe. This will sit alongside their existing role to provide testing facilities and environmental and public health responses to local outbreaks and clusters or preventative action in areas regarded as high risk.

So, are you saying the UK Government has no say in testing and tracing in Wales, because there is no mention of them in what you have listed. If so, how does that tie in with the story on the weekend about the testing centre in Porth (I can't remember if it had the capacity to do three or five hundred tests a day) being told by central Government to do just sixty, which was then raised to a hundred and twenty after representations by the Welsh Government?

That is the sort of administration I mean, the sort that was at the heart of the opening story on last night's Newsnight where the point was made that while the Government deserves credit for the big increase in testing numbers compared to the spring, they are, clearly, not getting the best out of the system at present.

[Vindec]

So, are you saying the UK Government has no say in testing and tracing in Wales, because there is no mention of them in what you have listed. If so, how does that tie in with the story on the weekend about the testing centre in Porth (I can't remember if it had the capacity to do three or five hundred tests a day) being told by central Government to do just sixty, which was then raised to a hundred and twenty after representations by the Welsh Government?

That is the sort of administration I mean, the sort that was at the heart of the opening story on last night's Newsnight where the point was made that while the Government deserves credit for the big increase in testing numbers compared to the spring, they are, clearly, not getting the best out of the system at present.

The paper I quoted was written by the Welsh government. Of course central government has a say in the arrangements but an earlier post of mine pointed out that the Welsh and Scots governments were involved which their own paper confirms and you will probably agree all 3 countries follow broadly the English arrangements with regard to lockdowns, testing and quarantines with tweaks around the edges. Also an earlier post of mine stated:

" However, I agree the test and trace arrangements are farcical. I live in Devon; people are being told to go 20 miles for a test but then discover Swansea is 20 miles by sea but a 300 miles round trip by road. It's a joke."

Incidentally I was very surprised to hear on the radio this morning that, even with out shambolic test and trace system, the UK is testing more than Germany per day - a country which is held up as being an example to us all.

Just to put the record straight I am no supporter of the test and trace arrangements and think things are going to get more challenging for the government when students who man many of the testing centres return to University/College. The government contractors SERCO seem to have avoided criticism so far so let's see what happens going forward.

[the other bob wilson]

The paper I quoted was written by the Welsh government. Of course central government has a say in the arrangements but an earlier post of mine pointed out that the Welsh and Scots governments were involved which their own paper confirms and you will probably agree all 3 countries follow broadly the English arrangements with regard to lockdowns, testing and quarantines with tweaks around the edges. Also an earlier post of mine stated:

" However, I agree the test and trace arrangements are farcical. I live in Devon; people are being told to go 20 miles for a test but then discover Swansea is 20 miles by sea but a 300 miles round trip by road. It's a joke."

Incidentally I was very surprised to hear on the radio this morning that, even with out shambolic test and trace system, the UK is testing more than Germany per day - a country which is held up as being an example to us all.

Just to put the record straight I am no supporter of the test and trace arrangements and think things are going to get more challenging for the government when students who man many of the testing centres return to University/College. The government contractors SERCO seem to have avoided criticism so far so let's see what happens going forward.

Fair enough, I'd still say that under the current arrangements, the Welsh and Scottish Governments are never wholly in control of their test and trace regimes (this applies especially to Wales) when something like we saw at Porth can happen - seems to me that the UK Government will always have the equivalent of a casting vote in this country.

Germany is an interesting point of comparison with the UK Government, because I believe you're right about the number of tests they do compared to us. While mainland Europe has seen a big rise (new case numbers are higher than in the spring in some countries), Germany still has lower daily figures than us and their death figures remain very low relatively speaking - they seem to be getting more from their system than us despite our resources and spending being arguably greater than theirs.

[Vindec]

On the radio this morning:

A lady from Twickenham wanted a test and was told the nearest centre with available tests was Aberdeen. So what did she do? She put in an Aberdeen postcode as her home address into the online form and was told her nearest centre with available tests was Twickenham

You really couldn't make it up.

[Rjk]

On the radio this morning:

A lady from Twickenham wanted a test and was told the nearest centre with available tests was Aberdeen. So what did she do? She put in an Aberdeen postcode as her home address into the online form and was told her nearest centre with available tests was Twickenham

You really couldn't make it up.

if that's true ...what the ****?
sheer incompetence? or actively trying to reduce demand?

[Michael Morris]

RCT to enter local lockdown from 6pm tomorrow (Thursday)

[Elwood Blues]

Fair enough, I'd still say that under the current arrangements, the Welsh and Scottish Governments are never wholly in control of their test and trace regimes (this applies especially to Wales) when something like we saw at Porth can happen - seems to me that the UK Government will always have the equivalent of a casting vote in this country.

Germany is an interesting point of comparison with the UK Government, because I believe you're right about the number of tests they do compared to us. While mainland Europe has seen a big rise (new case numbers are higher than in the spring in some countries), Germany still has lower daily figures than us and their death figures remain very low relatively speaking - they seem to be getting more from their system than us despite our resources and spending being arguably greater than theirs.

As regards Germany,their testing system is as I understand well established and was much better than ours from the off so it is perhaps not surprising that they are getting more from it.

They wouldn't have needed the same amount of spending on theirs as it was already in place.

Even so they were being criticised at one time during the pandemic for running out of tests,although I have no idea of their current situation. I will try and find something.

[Rjk]

100 new cases in wales today, dropping 2 days in a row - again not sure if linked to availability of tests or successful containment

[Rjk]

100 new cases in wales today, dropping 2 days in a row - again not sure if linked to availability of tests or successful containment

wait no, looks like there were 199 cases and the public health wales tweet was an error
in which case still climbing

[goats]

RCT to enter local lockdown from 6pm tomorrow (Thursday)

Is it ok to drive through, ie from cardiff to Brecon? Supposed to be walking up pen y fan saturday.....?

[Dorcus]

if that's true ...what the ****?
sheer incompetence? or actively trying to reduce demand?

Actively trying to reduce demand BECAUSE of the incompetence.

[bobh]

Apparently, much of the recent spike has been traced to an organised trip to Doncaster Races. (mentioned in 12:30 briefing)

F***ing idiots

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Is it ok to drive through, ie from cardiff to Brecon? Supposed to be walking up pen y fan saturday.....?

Depends if you're calling into a butcher's in Abercynon.