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Thread: Political post.. @Yescymru

  1. #26

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    It's a NO from me, a Welsh speaker, especially while the present bunch of no marks are down The Bay.
    Have elections with a better class of politician and I may change my mind, only might because I think we'd be pushing it to be financially better off alone as I think Scotland would too.

  2. #27

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    I have always been totally against it. Most elections I cant even be bothered to vote.( I do make the effort for the General Election) I dont think ive ever voted in the Welsh Assembly elections. I would have turned up to vote against Welsh Independence and didnt want the assembly.

    However Im like Bob. This useless government and the fact working class areas in England put them in has made me rethink.

    Id go further id vote for Independence if there was a vote today.

  3. #28

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by light up the darkness View Post
    To this I would add the amount of European money that was meant for Wales but which we never saw a penny of decided by both Labour and Tory governments. Wales cannot trust either of them
    Wales may have some chance of existing if it could remain n the European Union but it could never prosper because as noted it isn’t economically viable and n my opinion Wales does not possess enough intelligent people in politics who are clever enough to manage such a transition successfully.
    I would interpret your last line as a lack of confidence not just in our politics but as a country. Is there, potentially, no-one in Wales who knows how to sustain a nation? How do the Irish or the people of Iceland get by without someone watching over their shoulders to make sure they've done it right?

  4. #29

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    At this point in time I would rather have an independent, Welsh owned and funded, high quality media outlet rather than an independent Wales.

    Wales online is horrific, we need an independent media to hold Westminster and the Assembly to account, as well putting Welsh political and social agendas front and centre.

    With an independent media behind you, you can make a better case for or against a separate Wales (not that I want that). You can't rely on the BBC (backed by central government) and the London owned outlets to drive Welsh agendas in any depth.

    Personally I think it's better to fight for more autonomy and law making powers rather than splitting up the UK. This pandemic has shown Wales often needs a different approach to the wider UK, so lets get more devolution.

  5. #30
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    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by City123 View Post
    That's a pretty decent membership for a group like Yes Cymru, considering the low levels of political participation in the UK. For instance only about 0.2% of the population are members of the Conservative Party so to have 0.3% for a relatively new group about a traditionally fringe movement is pretty good going
    the Tories have donations measured in millions, I'd be surprised if YesCymru had donations measured in thousands.

    When you look at the Welsh results, the Tories polled better than Plaid Cymru at the last election. That says all you need to know about where the Welsh see their future. Around 10% vote for Plaid, and its not getting any higher than that.

    Leaving the union would be economic suicide, as we have nothing much to offer the English in terms of trade.

  6. #31
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    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    So if there was a vote in the house that all Welsh MPs wanted but English MPs didn't, who would win and would you be happy with this?
    is the vote on a Welsh only issue or Union issue? If its not a devolved matter then that's part of being in the union and would be accepted. Regardless, it will be a cold day in hell when Labour and Tory MPs vote the same way, no matter what the issue.

  7. #32

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    No.
    Drakeford and his cronies couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery.
    Topical ironic.
    Ditto.


    The jocks would cock things up on their own, too.

  8. #33
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    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebirdman Of Alcathays View Post
    I would interpret your last line as a lack of confidence not just in our politics but as a country. Is there, potentially, no-one in Wales who knows how to sustain a nation? How do the Irish or the people of Iceland get by without someone watching over their shoulders to make sure they've done it right?
    are Ireland and Iceland's economies so intrinsically linked to England's economy? You see an Exodus every day from Cardiff and Newport to Bristol - why is that?

  9. #34

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    I used to think that it would be a big mistake to leave the union.

    However, for as long as you care to look back Wales has been one of, or the poorest parts of the UK.
    I don't see that even changing whilst in a union with a member more than 18 times as big as us.
    The focus will always be on how to help London and the South east and we will get the scraps.

    Yes we get Barnett formula money, but that is all just spent on public services to treat the symptoms of having the oldest, poorest least healthy population in the UK.

    Investment into infrastructure almost never happens because you always get more bang for your buck in London, so in the union we will always be a poor relation and always just treating the symptoms of our economy.

    Ireland for many years were about the poorest part of the UK. They became independent 100 years ago this coming March, and since about the year 2000 have had a higher GDP per capita than the UK.
    Had they not left the UK this would not have happened.

  10. #35

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    the Tories have donations measured in millions, I'd be surprised if YesCymru had donations measured in thousands.

    When you look at the Welsh results, the Tories polled better than Plaid Cymru at the last election. That says all you need to know about where the Welsh see their future. Around 10% vote for Plaid, and its not getting any higher than that.

    Leaving the union would be economic suicide, as we have nothing much to offer the English in terms of trade.
    All I'm saying is that it's a good level of membership, its not the round dismissal of independence you think it is. The most recent Welsh independence poll showed 32% of the country would vote for independence if a vote was held tomorrow. https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nor...ghest-18832964


    Plaid Cymru are pretty much a complete failure as a political party but aren't the only vessel for the independence movement, as seen here the majority of Welsh Labour voters would back independence: https://nation.cymru/news/new-poll-s...-independence/

    I mentioned elsewhere that I don't see how "you'll be ruined without the union" is a particularly good argument for the union. Surely all that shows is the disregard held towards Wales by the Westminster government and the lack of economic development directed at Wales since the decimation of our national industries?

  11. #36

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    are Ireland and Iceland's economies so intrinsically linked to England's economy? You see an Exodus every day from Cardiff and Newport to Bristol - why is that?
    you see alot coming the other way too after the toll was scrapped. Caldicot has already fallen to the english. They're coming I tell you,there coming!

  12. #37

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebirdman Of Alcathays View Post
    I would interpret your last line as a lack of confidence not just in our politics but as a country. Is there, potentially, no-one in Wales who knows how to sustain a nation? How do the Irish or the people of Iceland get by without someone watching over their shoulders to make sure they've done it right?
    Ireland has the EU watching them. Didn't billions of British tax payer money go to the Irish bailout?

  13. #38

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    I wonder if the answer for anyone will be different once Scotland and Northern Ireland have both decided to leave.

  14. #39

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    We've got loads of industry - steelworks making huge quantities of steel and vast profits. The massive financial quarter in Mill Lane. Natural resources, we could sell our water to the Midlands and North West - they currently get it for free. Loads of earth, rock we could export.

    bring it on..

  15. #40

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Ireland (prior to EU membership) and Iceland have their own currencies. To be truly independent you have to have a currency; otherwise public spending and borrowing would have to be controlled by the country to which the currency belongs. ONS data indicates public spending in Wales is £14.7bn greater than taxes received so how is this gap to be closed if spending in Wales in effectively controlled by the UK government even if Wales was independent. It could never happen.

  16. #41

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    We've got loads of industry - steelworks making huge quantities of steel and vast profits. The massive financial quarter in Mill Lane. Natural resources, we could sell our water to the Midlands and North West - they currently get it for free. Loads of earth, rock we could export.

    bring it on..
    I wouldn't go so far as to say the steel industry is vastly profitable and, as for selling water, that can't happen as the reservoirs were constructed and paid for by local authorities in England. They could be nationalised at a cost but that is more money Wales doesn't or won't have.

  17. #42

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    I wouldn't go so far as to say the steel industry is vastly profitable and, as for selling water, that can't happen as the reservoirs were constructed and paid for by local authorities in England. They could be nationalised at a cost but that is more money Wales doesn't or won't have.
    I was being sarcastic. Wales on it's own is about as wealthy as Sudan

  18. #43

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Not for me I am a Unionist, believe UK is stronger together, very proud of our history on the world stage and believe that we need less division from the home nations and a need to come together, so Britain can come out of our current climate a stronger and more resilient power than ever before.

  19. #44

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    are Ireland and Iceland's economies so intrinsically linked to England's economy? You see an Exodus every day from Cardiff and Newport to Bristol - why is that?
    They could still do that if we were independent. But it doesn't answer my question.

  20. #45

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by bobh View Post
    Ditto.


    The jocks would cock things up on their own, too.
    And another one. Only the English can rule and organise, apparently. That's the English, who, along with the help of the Welsh, are currently driving everyone off a cliff.

  21. #46

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    The population of Wales probably isn't far off the population of the Republic of Ireland when they gained independance

  22. #47
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    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebirdman Of Alcathays View Post
    They could still do that if we were independent. But it doesn't answer my question.
    let me put it another way. We import more from England than they import from us - by a country mile. If we left the union we'd either be pegged to Sterling and would therefore be subject to spend decisions made by Westminster, or we'd be subject to tariffs, customs and currency fluctuations. Either way we'd be comparable with Chad within a generation.

    given the lackwits in the Senedd couldn't make the decision re the M4 relief road, it does bode well for full political freedom.

  23. #48
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    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    The population of Wales probably isn't far off the population of the Republic of Ireland when they gained independance
    lets just remember that globalism wasn't around in the 1920s (or 1940s - depending on how you define independence), and that localism played a much greater part of trade. Regardless, for many many years the punt was pegged to Sterling and all spend decisions for Ireland were made in Westminster.

  24. #49

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    Quote Originally Posted by TISS View Post
    let me put it another way. We import more from England than they import from us - by a country mile. If we left the union we'd either be pegged to Sterling and would therefore be subject to spend decisions made by Westminster, or we'd be subject to tariffs, customs and currency fluctuations. Either way we'd be comparable with Chad within a generation.

    given the lackwits in the Senedd couldn't make the decision re the M4 relief road, it does bode well for full political freedom.
    comparable to chad?

    don't be ridiculous

  25. #50

    Re: Political post.. @Yescymru

    In my opinion this died a death around 1990. The WDA was on the crest of a wave, pulling in foreign investment and manufacturing, exactly what was required to under pin independence. Then they fell to combination of corruption & illegal payments charges coupled with being outmanoeuvred by the EU funded Irish DA. The opportunity to reindustrialise Wales died there & then, through incompetence & complacency.

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