Reply With QuoteIn what sense was he off his cake? The fact he wanted to take Labour back to its socialist values?Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
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Amen to that.
Just wait for the next Labour civil war to break out as they make thier last stand . I hear Len is fuming folk are ripping up their cards , let's hope Sir Kier holds firm and wins this battle , the unsettled members should man up and form their own party with backing from multi million Seamas Milne and Len of the Unite Union instead of highjacking and destroying a decent one
In what sense was he off his cake? The fact he wanted to take Labour back to its socialist values?
At least you knew where you stood with Corbyn.
I didn’t vote for him as I thought the Tory policies helped me better personally but I had a lot more respect for him than Starmer who is just opposition for oppositions sake.
For me, a witch-hunt and a loss for politics.
Brexit killed him off in all honesty.
Brexit split the Labour Party in 2 with no winning solution
Well said, not worth the hassle in arguing the toss though. The way people go on is as if Corbyn was ultra left wing, far from it, he was just left wing, a soft socialist, it goes to show how far to the right the labour party have come, and plenty of it's supporters.
What a well rounded opinion, even for a ToryNice to hear some balance.
Corbyn is no fan of the EU, that's for sure. Neither am i, although i voted to stay in.
He was an idiot , the Labour Party was founded on fairness not bullying which 8s what he abbot and mcluskey were about
If this country had a sensible left of centre opposition we would have a real alternative to the tories
we really wouldn't. The Tories filled that void during the Cameron years, Boris is slightly more right wing.
I started a thread about this on the politics board hours before this one with a post that expressed no opinion at all, just a link to the BBC story on the report because I figured that it was the right place to put it.
The left of centre void? Really? Placing Boris as a centrist......
And 12 months ago the public in a general election voted that they didn't want it
Was it overstated by amplified inside the party?“One antisemite is one too many, but the scale of the problem was also dramatically overstated for political reasons by our opponents inside and outside the party, as well as by much of the media. That combination hurt Jewish people and must never be repeated.
Luciana Berger, MP: "“I call a spade a spade. If someone themselves makes anti-Semitic comments, if someone themselves shares a platform with anti-Semites, they’re anti-Semitic.”
Was it weaponized by opponents outside the party?
Undoubtedly. There was a report on the Tory party conference having a panel about Islamaphobia where each question selected from the audience was about anti-Semitism in the Labour party. Every slightest thing, wearing a crooked tie for example despite now supporting a prime minister who deliberately messes his hair up before TV appearances, was weaponised against Corbyn. Heck, Corbyn was mocked for wearing a green tie by Tory MP's so May had to quickly tell them it was an anniversary of the Grenfell fire.
Does that matter?
It can only be amplified, weaponised or overstated if there is something enough there, and Corbyn's response to it was inadequate. He was not/is not an anti-Semite but he did lack understanding, did lack leadership skills and, potentially because he felt obstructed from his party let alone outside, he became firstly resistant to any criticism and then resistant and willing to awkwardly counterpunch which is how supporters of his then acted also, some of them without any restraint and some of who were certainly anti-Semitic. But in doing so that moved him and the party under him slightly so no longer could claim to oppose all racism and caused a lot of pain to innocent people.
Was yesterday the day to explain or defend his actions further?
No. He should have apologised but again showed a lack of leadership skills.
Was he all bad?
Not at all. Under Corbyn many Black, brown, LGBT+, poor, refugee, and disabled people felt politics truly cared about them for the first time. Corbyn only became leader because many people felt they had been pushed out from politics for too long and, despite a minority believing in Corbyn or his ability to deliver, the ideas he presented from a soft European left perspective were overwhelmingly popular when polled individually. I mean, in hindsight did we need internet access for all this year or pushing ahead haphazardly with Brexit? If Labour are to win real change then the ideas and some of his behaviour will have to be continued.
Blair taught the modern day Tories how to min an election and stay in power, Maybe Not Centrist (which is almost always right wing, like Independants) But certainly not to the right of previous tory administrations.
What a ridiculous post. It flies in the face of all the evidence about Corbyn to the contrary and is a typical left wing/socialist ‘stick your head in the sand’ response. Most of the evidence against him has been provided by his own MP’s and officials, a number of whom resigned in protest at his lack of action. How anyone can speak in defence of such a man is a disgrace - perhaps only a card carrying member of Momentum ?
Christ. The Socialist Workers Party members are out in force today aren't they, in support of the busted flush that is poor old little Jeremy Corbyn and the dinosaur Labour Party.
On the back of brexit.
If brexit wasn’t an issue I think corbyn would be prime minister.
Lost half its support not going for it and the other half by not being the opposition
So you're saying he deserved to lose and the voting public were right
I would argue this current adminstration has moved quite a bit to the right. It has placated UKIP and Brexit Party members, most of whom were further right than usual Tory governments and are trying to control as much as they possibly can.
There is a centre ground in politics for the taking. Unfortunately, anything left of that is becoming marginalised. I find this strange, as left wing policies are often winners. Take the free school meals/Rashford thing for example. I find it strange that the political left are now being ridiculed, often by people who support left wing policies. It doesn't take a genius to work out why.
Why do you think left wing policies are broadly more popular than right wing policies, yet the current political pendulum is swinging right at the moment?
Its incredible to me that a huge swathe of the country bought a lot of the shit that was peddled about Corbyn. Was he perfect? Of course not, but he's not the Antichrist he was portrayed to be for offering fairly sensible socialist policies.
Yesterday pretty much confirmed there won't be another left of centre government in the UK for at least another generation
I think it's because of an incessant hysterical right wing media who have been allowed to get away with it because it suits the bosses and big business. We also have huge swathes of people who seem influenced by reactionary jingoistic 2 liners on social media, add to that, personality politics. Plenty of cretins seem at home in accepting Boris as a 'bit of a boy' bumbling nut funny, i really think that some people chose their politics based on who they'd prefer to go on the piss with. Corbyn is portrayed as non patriotic, a friend of terrorists, a champion of scroungers and snowflakes,scruffy, boring etc. His policies couldn't really be discussed or analysed by those who bought into all of that, because it may have meant that they had to sit down and read a balanced article, then make an informed decision.
Corbyn even had his own parliamentary party against him, many of them to the right or careerists with absolutely zero appetite in fighting for working class people and improving their lives. He's not even close to being far left, he's a soft socialist. It speaks volumes that he's seen that way.
In hindsight, i agree with you about Boris and his chums. Certainly the case under Cameron though, he tried a soft Tory line, trying to emulate Blair.
I feel that there are certain political stories that deserve wider circulation and discussion than the politics forum which is bit of graveyard if you want a proper discussion of the issues.
The story of the previous leader of the main opposition party being suspended by his successor
and having the whip withdrawn was I felt such a story
On a general point I have seen some good threads which were generating some decent debates die a death as soon as they go onto the politics forum.
Even I have rarely looked at it in recent months. Most decent political debate (and to be fair a lot of rubbish as well!) has taken place on the main Coronovirus thread plus a few related ones as well
You have my support on this one, Comrade
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