Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism

[life on mars]

Aw bless, nice to get that off your chest. Not sure what folk you are talking about but please start with me in your lining up to defend Corbyn rant with any evidence you wish to bring to the party.

I am deeply impressed how your concern for the Jewish people and their suffering seems so at odds with your views about naturally born British people being overwhelmed in their own cities, badging the whole Chinese race as being responsible for the acts of the Chinese government and your indifference to the plight of impressionable teenage girls being manipulated by powerful men.

And while you are at it tell me what you meant by the Billy the Kid quote as Ronnie thinks you are on the money!

I'm deeply worried we have a electable Labour party to get behind and your not best pleased , your trying to point score and trivialised a very serious matter , I know deafet is tough and truth hurts ,Labour has been found guilty, its not about me or what I say and do , its about caring for the Jewish people who have suffered under a nasty party you supported I understand how tough it is but it's a loss ,move on .

[Eric Cartman]

Aw bless, nice to get that off your chest. Not sure what folk you are talking about but please start with me in your lining up to defend Corbyn rant with any evidence you wish to bring to the party.

I am deeply impressed how your concern for the Jewish people and their suffering seems so at odds with your views about naturally born British people being overwhelmed in their own cities, badging the whole Chinese race as being responsible for the acts of the Chinese government and your indifference to the plight of impressionable teenage girls being manipulated by powerful men.

And while you are at it tell me what you meant by the Billy the Kid quote as Ronnie thinks you are on the money!

I know LOM sees what he wants to but I was actually surprised at how Corbyn's nearest and dearest weren't lining up to spit feathers at the decision to suspend him.

[Eric Cartman]

And still the denial goes on and on folk simply can't see that Labour won't be electable whilst making light of obvious racism within its ranks of supporters as it thunders on in denial .

You can always tell when folk struggle to accept they or their party were wrong , they become childish,and personal , very much in the way of the antisemitism that exists in parts of the party they support , it explains a lot really , as they line up to defend Corbyn and his group ,they cannot accept responsibility orfindvtge decency to apologise for the hurt that this has created not just to the Jewish community but to the Labour party and the decent lost Labour voters.

I do find it amusing they are now at odds with their new leader over this issue, real classy stuff ,who will they vote for if they don't agree with Sir Kier and feel Corbyn is a victim of the media and other evil forces, will they remain in denial !!!, will they force another Boris victory upon us by the act of this denial and narrow mindsets within its supporters ( always in denial, always in opposition )

Who will they vote for when Sir Keir centralises the party ,rips the left apart in readiness for a real Labour party that will appeal to all parts of the nation , not just
a one eyed dated Maxist projects whipped up by the elite wealthy London lefties , like Milne with its in house nastiness and chosen racism .

Sir Kier should plan for power by :

Banning Momentum
Clean up Labour Youth Party bullying
Never let Corbyn back
Ban on mass his backers like : Chris Williamson, Livingstone, Fisher, Murphy , McCluskey. Milne and thier current 'Zoom ' War Council .

Finally refuse Unites unhealthy controlling bounty and your voters will return in swaves , and yes I'm one of them.

I am pretty sure Starmer wouldn't want your backing based on some of the awful things you have said on here.

[cyril evans awaydays]

I'm deeply worried we have a electable Labour party to get behind and your not best pleased , your trying to point score and trivialised a very serious matter , I know deafet is tough and truth hurts ,Labour has been found guilty, its not about me or what I say and do , its about caring for the Jewish people who have suffered under a nasty party you supported I understand how tough it is but it's a loss ,move on .

It is fascinating trying to understand your thought processes and it is about you and what you say and do!

Like your "mates" you wander around stuffing words in people's mouths they never uttered whilst crying every time your actual words are played back to you.

Yesterday, and not for the first time, I gave my views on Corbyn's stupidity on this issue. Happy to play all the others back. Let me know if you are uncomfortable with that.

In the meantime what exactly did you mean when using Billy the Kid as the justification for the slaughter of 11 Jews in Pittsburgh?

[cyril evans awaydays]

I know LOM sees what he wants to but I was actually surprised at how Corbyn's nearest and dearest weren't lining up to spit feathers at the decision to suspend him.

As I said yesterday he seems back in his comfort zone. Martyrdom and rebellion come easier to him than responsibility and leadership.

[life on mars]

"" those who deny there is a problem are part of the problem ""

[Heisenberg]

"" those who deny there is a problem are part of the problem ""

[life on mars]

*Originally Posted by*life on mars*

"" those who deny there is a problem are part of the problem ""

[Heisenberg]

*Originally Posted by*life on mars*

"" those who deny there is a problem are part of the problem ""

[Eric Cartman]

"" those who deny there is a problem are part of the problem ""

That is some scary authoritarian shit right there.

[Dorcus]

That is some scary authoritarian shit right there.

It sounds like something out of a fascist rulebook. No dissent will be countenanced. It seems a neat attempt to silence people.

[life on mars]

It sounds like something out of a fascist rulebook. No dissent will be countenanced. It seems a neat attempt to silence people.

Tell that to jewish people effected by this ideological and mindset ,which sadly exists in a mainstream party , if you have any doubts speak to your new leader who said "" those who deny there is a problem are part of the problem ""

[Dorcus]

Tell that to jewish people effected by this ideological and mindset ,which sadly exists in a mainstream party , if you have any doubts speak to your new leader who said "" those who deny there is a problem are part of the problem ""

I can't remember any published "anti-Semitic' remarks by Labour members being anything more than criticisms of Zionist hegemony over the Palestinian people. From the reported examples I would comment that some made the remarks more crudely than others did. However, nothing on the published examples struck me as being offensive to Jewish people. To me, it was nowhere near as offensive as calling Welsh people "sheepshaggers", an epithet which is like water off a duck's back to me.

If I could meet up with Keir Starmer I would tell him that his comments are both unfair and unwise. His action in dismissing Jeremy Corbyn from the Labour party was cruel and high handed.

I can understand why he chose to do it, he wants to make Labour electable again and I concur entirely with this aim but not at the expense of people who have deep seated and compassionate views on the tyranny imposed on a group of people to whom the West has largely turned its back because they don't have the influence within the circles of power.

However, Keir Starmer is our only bet at the moment to oust this wretched Brexit cult which passes for our government so apart from this issue he gets my support.

[cyril evans awaydays]

I can't remember any published "anti-Semitic' remarks by Labour members being anything more than criticisms of Zionist hegemony over the Palestinian people. From the reported examples I would comment that some made the remarks more crudely than others did. However, nothing on the published examples struck me as being offensive to Jewish people. To me, it was nowhere near as offensive as calling Welsh people "sheepshaggers", an epithet which is like water off a duck's back to me.

If I could meet up with Keir Starmer I would tell him that his comments are both unfair and unwise. His action in dismissing Jeremy Corbyn from the Labour party was cruel and high handed.

I can understand why he chose to do it, he wants to make Labour electable again and I concur entirely with this aim but not at the expense of people who have deep seated and compassionate views on the tyranny imposed on a group of people to whom the West has largely turned its back because they don't have the influence within the circles of power.

However, Keir Starmer is our only bet at the moment to oust this wretched Brexit cult which passes for our government so apart from this issue he gets my support.

I think the only calculated act here was Corbyn's. If you accept Rawnseley's explanation of events then after his flirtation with power then Jeremy is back where he is most comfortable. The question is more what damage is he prepared to unleash to achieve the martyr status he seems to relish.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...mitism-scandal

It also includes Starmer's actual quote just in case LoM wants to go wild with bold and font changes again!

“If, after all the pain, all the grief, and all the evidence in this report, there are still those who think there’s no problem with antisemitism in the Labour party, that it’s all exaggerated, or a factional attack, then, frankly, you are part of the problem too and you should be nowhere near the Labour party either.”

[jon1959]

I think the only calculated act here was Corbyn's. If you accept Rawnseley's explanation of events then after his flirtation with power then Jeremy is back where he is most comfortable. The question is more what damage is he prepared to unleash to achieve the martyr status he seems to relish.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...mitism-scandal

It also includes Starmer's actual quote just in case LoM wants to go wild with bold and font changes again!

“If, after all the pain, all the grief, and all the evidence in this report, there are still those who think there’s no problem with antisemitism in the Labour party, that it’s all exaggerated, or a factional attack, then, frankly, you are part of the problem too and you should be nowhere near the Labour party either.”

I think the Rawnsley 'explanation' is bullshit and I am sorry you are promoting it.

There have clearly been examples of antisemitism in the Labour Party - in line with that in wider society and other parties - although the EHRC report adds very little to what was previously in the public domain. The two main case studies (one is Ken Livingston) are very thin, and many of the examples given are where an antisemtitic intent is assumed without evidence! However, whilst thin (and with no allegations about Corbyn himself) there are some appalling examples derived from the 70 case files that were examined (58 put forward by the Jewish Labour Movement and the Camapign Against Antisemitism and 12 by the Labour Party).

It implies a definition of antisemitism that allows it to denounce anyone who claims that political enemies used the crisis for factional purposes (they did) or that the press exaggerated the prevalence of allegations (they did) which is very different from convictions. The report did though dissect the way allegations were managed and investigated - and made a series of recommendations that almost anyone could support. Corbyn supported the recommendations. He refused to accept every line in the EHRC report (quite rightly) and put out a statement that generally accepted the report whilst repeating again his view that the crisis had been manipulated and that it had been reported in a way that gave the public (and the Jewish communities) an impression of case numbers that was 1000x the reality.

What Corbyn said on publication of the report was to my mind fair and reasonable. The way Starmer characterised it was false and dishonest. Starmer (not Corbyn) has acted to escalate the issue and has lost any control he had. He is now being pushed to suspend another 20-30 leading figures, including half of the Campaign Group of MPs. Interestingly he has directly intervened in the internal party process, contrary to his own claims (but subsequently came clean on TV), and doing exactly what the EHRC denounced in their report.

Several years ago Clive Lewis (before he stepped down from the leadership contest) made a very powerful speech in which he argued it was possible (because it was true) for there to be both incidents of antisemitism in the party and for those incidents to be misused and misrepresented for factional purposes. That's where I am today after reading the report and acres of reaction from all sides over recent days.

I hope the process recommendations are implemented quickly and that there is clarity and fairness for people who feel they are victims, but also for those who are accused (frequently falsely over recent years - with a minority of the accused being sanctioned). I also hope that the rising number of incidents of antisemitism in the UK get more attention that anti-zionist tweets by obscure Labour councillors! The real victims of this crisis are not the main protagonists but the victims in the UK who don't have a united and effective anti racist party to stand with them, and the victims in Gaza, the West Bank and the refugee camps who have had their voices silenced and their repression 'normalised'!

[cyril evans awaydays]

I think the Rawnsley 'explanation' is bullshit and I am sorry you are promoting it.

There have clearly been examples of antisemitism in the Labour Party - in line with that in wider society and other parties - although the EHRC report adds very little to what was previously in the public domain. The two main case studies (one is Ken Livingston) are very thin, and many of the examples given are where an antisemtitic intent is assumed without evidence! However, whilst thin (and with no allegations about Corbyn himself) there are some appalling examples derived from the 70 case files that were examined (58 put forward by the Jewish Labour Movement and the Camapign Against Antisemitism and 12 by the Labour Party).

It implies a definition of antisemitism that allows it to denounce anyone who claims that political enemies used the crisis for factional purposes (they did) or that the press exaggerated the prevalence of allegations (they did) which is very different from convictions. The report did though dissect the way allegations were managed and investigated - and made a series of recommendations that almost anyone could support. Corbyn supported the recommendations. He refused to accept every line in the EHRC report (quite rightly) and put out a statement that generally accepted the report whilst repeating again his view that the crisis had been manipulated and that it had been reported in a way that gave the public (and the Jewish communities) an impression of case numbers that was 1000x the reality.

What Corbyn said on publication of the report was to my mind fair and reasonable. The way Starmer characterised it was false and dishonest. Starmer (not Corbyn) has acted to escalate the issue and has lost any control he had. He is now being pushed to suspend another 20-30 leading figures, including half of the Campaign Group of MPs. Interestingly he has directly intervened in the internal party process, contrary to his own claims (but subsequently came clean on TV), and doing exactly what the EHRC denounced in their report.

Several years ago Clive Lewis (before he stepped down from the leadership contest) made a very powerful speech in which he argued it was possible (because it was true) for there to be both incidents of antisemitism in the party and for those incidents to be misused and misrepresented for factional purposes. That's where I am today after reading the report and acres of reaction from all sides over recent days.

I hope the process recommendations are implemented quickly and that there is clarity and fairness for people who feel they are victims, but also for those who are accused (frequently falsely over recent years - with a minority of the accused being sanctioned). I also hope that the rising number of incidents of antisemitism in the UK get more attention that anti-zionist tweets by obscure Labour councillors! The real victims of this crisis are not the main protagonists but the victims in the UK who don't have a united and effective anti racist party to stand with them, and the victims in Gaza, the West Bank and the refugee camps who have had their voices silenced and their repression 'normalised'!

Jon,

The key question for me is whether the Rawnsley description of events is true. If he spent the night before "clearing" what he was going to say with Corbyn and he still couldn't stay in line with a new leader then I am afraid it fits my impression of his frailties. The Rawnsley view that many who would consider to be in his camp think Corbyn's exposure on this is not the hill to die on resonates.

[jon1959]

Jon,

The key question for me is whether the Rawnsley description of events is true. If he spent the night before "clearing" what he was going to say with Corbyn and he still couldn't stay in line with a new leader then I am afraid it fits my impression of his frailties. The Rawnsley view that many who would consider to be in his camp think Corbyn's exposure on this is not the hill to die on resonates.

Corbyn has many frailties and was a mixed bag as a party leader. As a party manager - albeit in a very hostile PLP and press environment - he was very poor. He wasn't interested in the job as it is. He wanted ideas, campaigns, collective action. He is modest and principled, but also a pacifist in all his relationships. He dithered and then capitulated to many of the attacks on him and the values he represents. He thought that would buy him space and time, but it did neither. The latest batch of opinion pieces attacking Corbyn imply that it is ego or vanity that produced his response. I don't believe that. I think it was a limited push back against false allegations and press reporting whilst accepting most of the report and (I think) all of the recommendations.

There are several incompatible versions of what was agreed between Starmer and Corbyn the evening before the report was published and the press conference. I don't know the truth but based on personalities and recent record I am much more inclined to accept the Corbyn version than Starmers (direct or via the likes of Rawnsley). I thought Starmer would at least be straight and honest as party leader - even if dull and conservative. I don't think he has been. He repeatedly misrepresented Corbyn's statement on national TV and his latest lie was that he didn't make the call about Corbyn's suspension but left it to David Evans. He later admitted his involvement. Neither should have been involved if Labour is accepting the report recommendations!

I didn't vote for Starmer but I did believe his 10 Point pitch at the leadership hustings - now I don't trust him an inch.

This is one where we will have to agree to disagree.

[life on mars]

Missed chance in last election as Piers Corbyn was lined as head of Covid 19 task team , Abbot as a Chancellor , Livingstone in charge of inequalities , Richard Burgon Media Expert , Len of the Unite in overall charge of everyone else ,see where i'm going there

[Heisenberg]

Missed chance in last election as Piers Corbyn was lined as head of Covid 19 task team , Abbot as a Chancellor , Livingstone in charge of inequalities , Richard Burgon Media Expert , Len of the Unite in overall charge of everyone else ,see where i'm going there

I can categorically tell you that nobody can ever see where you're going with your posts.

[jon1959]

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...r-disciplinary

[life on mars]

I can categorically tell you that nobody can ever see where you're going with your posts.

I can categorically tell you Labour were trounced in the last election by a buffoon and been found guilty of 23 counts so of course you understand the thrust of my posts .

Nice and easy for you to some up my views :

Labour had a dreadful leader .
The party was highjacked .
Electorate disliked the party .
He oversaw a period of antisemitism within his party .
He surrounded himself dreadful people.
He list to a fool and handed an 80 seat majority to an awful PM.
Lost seats and supporters .
Seats fell that had never voted Tory in thier history.
Lost all of Scotland.
It list many MP'S through resignation and disgust of its behaviours

What a waste of a tragic waste of a decent party and its history ,a half decent leader and front bench would have beaten the Tories .

Enjoy new not so left new Labour , that hopefully will rise and deliver better values. ?

[Heisenberg]

I can categorically tell you Labour were trounced in the last election by a buffoon and been found guilty of 23 counts so of course you understand the thrust of my posts .

Nice and easy for you to some up my views :

Labour had a dreadful leader .
The party was highjacked .
Electorate disliked the party .
He oversaw a period of antisemitism within his party .
He surrounded himself dreadful people.
He list to a fool and handed an 80 seat majority to an awful PM.
Lost seats and supporters .
Seats fell that had never voted Tory in thier history.
Lost all of Scotland.
It list many MP'S through resignation and disgust of its behaviours

What a waste of a tragic waste of a decent party and its history ,a half decent leader and front bench would have beaten the Tories .

Enjoy new not so left new Labour , that hopefully will rise and deliver better values. ?

You said "Missed chance in last election as Piers Corbyn was lined as head of Covid 19 task team". I assume you thought you were being clever and funny but the last election took place before we'd even heard of Covid 19 you ****ing idiot.

[life on mars]

You said "Missed chance in last election as Piers Corbyn was lined as head of Covid 19 task team". I assume you thought you were being clever and funny but the last election took place before we'd even heard of Covid 19 you ****ing idiot.

That was replying to a different post and a light hearted quote , however note you didn't comment on anything on the list.

One knows when one is beaten so best you stay away from the ( new ) Labour project as it will be (thank god) a centralist left party we can vote for, hopefully for you Corbyn and his lot will form some form of party that appeals to your narrow nasty comment world .

[Heisenberg]

That was replying to a different post and a light hearted quote , however note you didn't comment on anything on the list.

One knows when one is beaten so best you stay away from the ( new ) Labour project as it will be (thank god) a centralist left party we can vote for, hopefully for you Corbyn and his lot will form some form of party that appeals to your narrow nasty comment world .

[cyril evans awaydays]

Missed chance in last election as Piers Corbyn was lined as head of Covid 19 task team , Abbot as a Chancellor , Livingstone in charge of inequalities , Richard Burgon Media Expert , Len of the Unite in overall charge of everyone else ,see where i'm going there

Which post in this thread was this the light hearted response to out of interest? Isn't it easier to reply to the "Reply with Quote" option if you got confused?