Wigan surprises me, but not Bury or Notts County, due to the early years of football.
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Including this season, we have spent 51% of our league history in the second tier of English football. To say this is where we arguably belong is probably an understatement. Only Barnsley, Hull, Leicester and Fulham have spent a greater ratio of their league campaigns in this division (Barnsley have spent 69% of their existence in the second tier).
43 sides have spent a greater percentage of their seasons in the top flight than us, 41 have spent more seasons in total.
69% of our league seasons have been in the top two divisions. That's a better record than all bar 38 clubs. It may be of some surprise to learn that we've spent more time in the top two flights than Crystal Palace, Bristol City, Watford and Brighton.
Only 8 sides have never played outside the top two divisions. They are
Everton
Liverpool
Arsenal
Tottenham Hotspur
Chelsea
Manchester United
Newcastle United
West Ham United
The sides who have spent more time than us in the top 2 divisions is as follows:
Everton
Liverpool
Arsenal
Aston Villa
Tottenham Hotspur
Chelsea
Manchester United
Manchester City
Newcastle United
Sunderland
West Bromwich Albion
West Ham United
Bolton Wanderers
Blackburn Rovers
Sheffield Wednesday
Middlesbrough
Stoke City
Wolverhampton Wanderers
Derby County
Sheffield United
Wimbledon
Leeds United
Birmingham City
Burnley
Nottingham Forest
Southampton
Leicester City
Preston North End
Coventry City
Portsmouth
Ipswich Town
Huddersfield Town
Charlton Athletic
Norwich City
Fulham
Notts County
Blackpool
Queens Park Rangers
Crystal Palace
Bury
Wigan Athletic
Wigan surprises me, but not Bury or Notts County, due to the early years of football.
Wigan's first game in the league was against Reading..away...only know that because a few of us were at Reading 78..The Jam..Sham..Quo..and a bunch of West Ham skinheads invited us to jump the turnstiles and steam into the ' northern ***** '...but we couldn't find them!..ended 0.0
A hundred years ago, Cardiff was, arguably, at its most powerful and influential as it was still a thriving port on the back of all that exporting of coal and, from this distance, it's surprising that a place of such importance only made it into the Football League just as Cardiff's status was beginning to decline in the run up to the Depression and General Strike,
My guess is that Cardiff City's place in lists like Eric's would be a fair bit higher if we'd, say, joined the Football League at the time Riverside FC came about in 1899.
I would argue that the first fifty years of City's existence in the Football League is more successful in terms of major trophies contested and time spent in the top flight than the second one, despite the city and surrounding areas being in something of a decline between 1920 and 1970. Okay, the partial recovery of the city in particular since 1970 has not restored it to its former glories, but its football and rugby clubs have still under achieved in the past half a century when it comes to matching the prosperity and status of the city they represent.
I was looking at each team's performance for the duration of their league existance. It gives a stronger idea of how well they've done. No doubts that Wigan and Wimbledon were pretty successful for the shorter time they've been in the league, which wouldn't be represented at all if you just did a cumulative list.
I couldn't agree more.
Thinking of top flight football, certainly our successes in the 1920s have never been matched since. My understanding is that, back then, players were generally local to the clubs themselves, when money had less of an effect on the game. I was surprised, then, to find out that, prior to 1970, 52 different teams had competed in the top flight. Since 1970, that number has risen to 56. However, prior to 1970 there were 21 different English Champions and only 12 since. Villa, Blackburn, Leicester and Forest have won one, Everton, Leeds and Derby two, so 40 of the last 50 champions has come from a pool of 5 clubs.
It also appears that, in recent times, the footballing top table has increasingly come from the south east, with some traditionally stronger teams from the North and Midlands spending longer in the Championship. As that part of the country has grown economically, that's probably not a surprise.
My dislike of Quo is the direct consequence of my brother once running a pub where one of his regulars continuously played Quo and Meat Loaf on the jukebox. Each to their own mind
Regarding Phil Collins he’s a Tory and I’d rather listen to tinnitus. He was crap in Buster too. The best thing I got to say about him is he looks like Edward Woodward (to me anyway). My wife used to listen to one of his album’s regularly. We lost it during a house move.
It’s an interesting list and well done on doing the statistics
Notts County is an interesting one (for me). Never had them down as a regular in the top two divisions although I can remember them being in Division 1 for a few seasons and City played them during the 70s. Just shows how your personal memories don’t reflect the reality.
Keep them coming butt.
Great research Eric the Half a Bee. Stats is my thing with City too. I must remind our 'friends' down West! And the attendances too.
i think in the 100 years we have been in the FL, we have been above Swansea roughly two thirds of the time, but they only count the Premier League and forget they are essentially a second/third tier team. Not thatI have grudge against them of course, but they do need reminding. The last 10 years have been the greatest in their history, it's been pretty good for us too. But City in the 1920s were something, promoted in the first season, Winning the FA Cup, Welsh Cup and Charity Shield in the same year and another FA Cup Final and another FA Cup Semi Final too. We had to field a reserve team once as we had so many International call ups.
We've been above Swansea 59 times. They've been above us 34 times.
We've played in the same division 30 times. We've been one division above them 29 times and two divisions above them 13 times. They've been one division above us 21 times and two divisions above us once. When we've been in the same division, we've finished above them 17 times out of 29.
Throughout the 1920s we finished above Swansea every season. This reversed throughout the 1930s as we plunged into Division 3.
From 1950, we finished ahead of them for 29 consecutive seasons. Since 1979, they've been above us 23 times while we've been above them 18 times. We were on top for 12 out of 13 seasons from 1997-2010. The 2010s saw 8 consecutive seasons when Swansea have been above us. The longest stint Swansea have enjoyed above us is 10 seasons in the 1930s-1946/47.
I think if I had to broadly categorise both clubs I’d say the city are underachievers and the jacks overachievers. Historically, we’re probably about where we should be and they’re punching above their weight.
Thanks Eric! Love these tidbits.
Broadening it out rivalry-wise, I’d probably categorise the wurzels as closer to us than the jacks on that spectrum of achievement. Although being a two club town disrupts that a little bit when I think of them compared to us.
Their average position is 42nd, ours is 40th, the Jacks is 48th (revised from last week's post due to an inputting error).
At this present moment in time, the cyder drynkers are 19 places higher than their overall average.
We've been above them in the league 55 times, they've been above us 38 times. We've been in the same division 41 times.
They've been 2 divisions above us 4 times, we've been 2 divisions above them 11 times.
From 1971, they finished above us 26 times in 32 seasons up until that wonderous moment when we beat them in the playoffs. In 17 years since then, we've finished above them 16 times. The only time they finished above us during this period was in 2007/08 where they managed to blow an automatic promotion and playoff attempt within a few weeks.
Here's one for you (and anyone else):
Swansea are currently 23.5 places higher than their football league average. Which 5 sides have even higher positions than their league averages?