Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[adz-a32]

A member of my family works on 'the front line' at UHW. Everything they do in the clinical setting is with the correct amount of protection, rigorous cleaning both personal and surroundings, regular monitoring and testing of staff etc.


Yet despite all this she caught it, not from the hospital, but from her daughter catching it in school.

Im what is generally referred to as elderly and my good lady is elderly and vulnerable. You mention shielding, we tried it in March when the outbreak started. We would have starved if we'd depended solely on supermarket deliveries. We just get on with life and have given up on house parties and raves.
And Im not hinting that I should be front of the queue for a vaccine, but to offer it to NHS staff first, for what appears to be logistical reasons ( the need for 'vaccine hubs') seems stupid when we all know that the people filling hospital beds and putting pressure on the NHS are 60years plus and they should be sorted first

I know this is an American context but you can apply it to care homes: https://uk.reuters.com/article/healt...-idUSKBN27Q094

Some quotes to note:

"But the vaccine’s complex and super-cold storage requirements are an obstacle for even the most sophisticated hospitals in the United States and may impact when and where it is available in rural areas or poor countries where resources are tight."

""hospitals even in big cities do not have storage facilities for a vaccine at that ultra-low temperature.”

Indeed, one of the most prestigious U.S. hospitals, the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, said it does not currently have that capability."

"The detailed plan includes using dry ice to transport frozen vaccine vials by both air and land at their recommended temperatures for up to 10 days, she said."

So some conclusions:
- it would be tough to store them, especially in care homes and GP surgeries
- it would be tough to transport (due to the need of dry ice)
- one batch would be need to be used within 10 days (I am not a vaccine expert so I don't know if that's relatively short or long)

While I understand your point about shielding - coronavirus is a pooled risk as Van Tam said in a press conference - there are logistical reasons with the rollout of the vaccine. Though the rollout will be interesting...

[lisvaneblue]

I know this is an American context but you can apply it to care homes: https://uk.reuters.com/article/healt...-idUSKBN27Q094

Some quotes to note:

"But the vaccine’s complex and super-cold storage requirements are an obstacle for even the most sophisticated hospitals in the United States and may impact when and where it is available in rural areas or poor countries where resources are tight."

""hospitals even in big cities do not have storage facilities for a vaccine at that ultra-low temperature.”

Indeed, one of the most prestigious U.S. hospitals, the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, said it does not currently have that capability."

"The detailed plan includes using dry ice to transport frozen vaccine vials by both air and land at their recommended temperatures for up to 10 days, she said."

So some conclusions:
- it would be tough to store them, especially in care homes and GP surgeries
- it would be tough to transport (due to the need of dry ice)
- one batch would be need to be used within 10 days (I am not a vaccine expert so I don't know if that's relatively short or long)

While I understand your point about shielding - coronavirus is a pooled risk as Van Tam said in a press conference - there are logistical reasons with the rollout of the vaccine. Though the rollout will be interesting...

I used to work at Pfizer and was involved with supply chain. My take is that the vaccine will be made at various Pfizer plants around he world. Europe will be served by the plant at Puurs, Belgium. It will be transported in specialist boxes with dry ice at -70 in quantities of up to 1000 vials. In these containers it is stable for 10 days, so has to be used within this time frame

No doubt much of it will be transported by plane so it could be in UK within 24-48 hours of manufacture. The low temperature storage requirement means that it will be administered from hubs rather than from doctors' surgeries.

Hospitals can usually store drugs at -2 to -8 and at that temperature the vaccine is stable for up to 5 days. Obviously if you keep opening a fridge to take some product out that could effect the temperature and consequently the stability.
The 5 days stability in fridge is part of the 10 day time limit, not additional to it.

So in UK we need a well orchestrated campaign to get the product from Puurs to UK hubs from where mass vaccinations can take place. The government has appointed a Tsar for England to oversee the logistics of this. It may be difficult but its certainly manageable. Same will probably apply to USA. The stability/ transport issues means the vaccine is unlikely to be suitable for some poorer countries.

A downside in UK is the devolved 4 nation approach to healthcare. Each home country will be responsible for distribution and administration once they receive supply from UK Government. Based on past experience each country will want to do things slightly differently. This just adds to the links in the supply chain and takes up valuable time. If ever there was a time for a centralised UK approach this is it.

[goats]

Not if the professionals are off sick with the virus.

Not so much off sick with the virus, but lots of staff are having to self isolate for two weeks due to people they know having it etc.....so struggling for staff in some departments

[Hilts]

Of course front line workers should get it first.

[adz-a32]

I used to work at Pfizer and was involved with supply chain. My take is that the vaccine will be made at various Pfizer plants around he world. Europe will be served by the plant at Puurs, Belgium. It will be transported in specialist boxes with dry ice at -70 in quantities of up to 1000 vials. In these containers it is stable for 10 days, so has to be used within this time frame

No doubt much of it will be transported by plane so it could be in UK within 24-48 hours of manufacture. The low temperature storage requirement means that it will be administered from hubs rather than from doctors' surgeries.

Hospitals can usually store drugs at -2 to -8 and at that temperature the vaccine is stable for up to 5 days. Obviously if you keep opening a fridge to take some product out that could effect the temperature and consequently the stability.
The 5 days stability in fridge is part of the 10 day time limit, not additional to it.

So in UK we need a well orchestrated campaign to get the product from Puurs to UK hubs from where mass vaccinations can take place. The government has appointed a Tsar for England to oversee the logistics of this. It may be difficult but its certainly manageable. Same will probably apply to USA. The stability/ transport issues means the vaccine is unlikely to be suitable for some poorer countries.

A downside in UK is the devolved 4 nation approach to healthcare. Each home country will be responsible for distribution and administration once they receive supply from UK Government. Based on past experience each country will want to do things slightly differently. This just adds to the links in the supply chain and takes up valuable time. If ever there was a time for a centralised UK approach this is it.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing your knowledge bro

[tomcat]

So we seem to agree that NHS staff not on the front line such as Admin staff shouldn't receive priority. Where we differ is that I think staff on the front line should receive priority and you think the elderly should be first in the queue. The elderly had the opportunity to prevent getting the virus whereas health professionals working on the front line are required to do their job. They have no choice. Additionally the NHS has a duty of care particularly to their front line staff. We are not going to agree.

My wife is an NHS pharmaceuticals buyer who although working form home works long into the night (unpaid after 5pm) to ensure that everything needed is available where it needs to be and when. If she got ill (although not on the frontline) there'd be a big problem. She will get a jab early, and so she bloody should for all our benefits

[lisvaneblue]

My wife is an NHS pharmaceuticals buyer who although working form home works long into the night (unpaid after 5pm) to ensure that everything needed is available where it needs to be and when. If she got ill (although not on the frontline) there'd be a big problem. She will get a jab early, and so she bloody should for all our benefits

Interesting debate and Im sure if your wife was ill it would have a knock on consequences, just as a teacher getting ill or a nurse...and I could go on. This is happening now through Covid infection directly, or through workmates or children catching it and forcing people to self isolate.

Then there are the hundreds of thousands being furloughed or made redundant through no fault of their own and the 'big problems' that causes them and their families.

The experts say vaccinate the elderly first. Why?...because they are the group that is causing the logjam in hospitals. They are the group that take up most of the critical care beds.They are the group where 90% of the deaths occur...and that too has extreme knock on consequences for their families.

Newspapers report that NHS England will vaccinate NHS staff first. Northern Ireland will vaccinate the elderly first. Wales has yet to show its hand, but as the health minister has announced that he's seeking the advice of the immunisation experts I believe Wales will go with a similar approach to Northern Ireland.

[Vindec]

Good Christmas present for someone. It could be popular on here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bog-Standar.../dp/B07ZRWBPS5

[xsnaggle]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55136635

I hope they take his balls off him too.

[goats]

Hopefully

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...eford-19378411

[the other bob wilson]

Pfiizer vaccines to start in the UK next week;-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55145696

[Monster munch]

Pfiizer vaccines to start in the UK next week;-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55145696

Normality by easter, or maybe earlier?

[Elwood Blues]

Interesting debate and Im sure if your wife was ill it would have a knock on consequences, just as a teacher getting ill or a nurse...and I could go on. This is happening now through Covid infection directly, or through workmates or children catching it and forcing people to self isolate.

Then there are the hundreds of thousands being furloughed or made redundant through no fault of their own and the 'big problems' that causes them and their families.

The experts say vaccinate the elderly first. Why?...because they are the group that is causing the logjam in hospitals. They are the group that take up most of the critical care beds.They are the group where 90% of the deaths occur...and that too has extreme knock on consequences for their families.

Newspapers report that NHS England will vaccinate NHS staff first. Northern Ireland will vaccinate the elderly first. Wales has yet to show its hand, but as the health minister has announced that he's seeking the advice of the immunisation experts I believe Wales will go with a similar approach to Northern Ireland.

America has announced it will do health care workers first

Then care home residents.

Hasn't announced any further yet but on CNN it was suggesting they would do other emergency services next ( police firefighters etc) followed by those who were vulnerable ( including all over 65's)

[lisvaneblue]

America has announced it will do health care workers first

Then care home residents.

Hasn't announced any further yet but on CNN it was suggesting they would do other emergency services next ( police firefighters etc) followed by those who were vulnerable ( including all over 65's)

BBC reports this morning that the Pfizer vaccine has been approved for use in UK. They say that elderly in care homes will get it first. Vaccination will be rolled out from next week

[goats]

BBC reports this morning that the Pfizer vaccine has been approved for use in UK. They say that elderly in care homes will get it first. Vaccination will be rolled out from next week

Great news finally....hopefully most who need it will get it by Easter

[xsnaggle]

The amount purchased will protect about 10 million people.

[Croesy Blue]

The amount purchased will protect about 10 million people.

Hopefully the Moderna and Oxford ones will get approved and that would give us more than enough to do the whole country.

[Vindec]

Hopefully the Moderna and Oxford ones will get approved and that would give us more than enough to do the whole country.

The actual number pre ordered from various pharmaceutical companies is huge. 100m of the Oxford vaccine alone.

https://www.cityam.com/which-covid-v...nment-ordered/

[the other bob wilson]

Welsh figures are back up to pre Firebreak levels looking at these on the back of similar figures yesterday, I suppose it needs two or three more days like them to be sure it is as bad as it's beginning to look;-

https://public.tableau.com/profile/p...eadlinesummary

[Rjk]

Welsh figures are back up to pre Firebreak levels looking at these on the back of similar figures yesterday, I suppose it needs two or three more days like them to be sure it is as bad as it's beginning to look;-

https://public.tableau.com/profile/p...eadlinesummary

there is slightly.more testing being done now, but yeah it does t look good

[Elwood Blues]

Welsh figures are back up to pre Firebreak levels looking at these on the back of similar figures yesterday, I suppose it needs two or three more days like them to be sure it is as bad as it's beginning to look;-

https://public.tableau.com/profile/p...eadlinesummary

Cardiff 899 today.

345 more in about 10 days!!

I Might be wrong, but I think that 899 is higher than at any time before the Circuit/Fire Break/Lockdown

[goats]

Cardiff 899 today.

345 more in about 10 days!!

I Might be wrong, but I think that 899 is higher than at any time before the Circuit/Fire Break/Lockdown

Is this because of the mass testing of students going on by the Uni ?

[lisvaneblue]

Is this because of the mass testing of students going on by the Uni ?

Some weeks ago I would have said yes as the student areas had higher incidence. Now the MSOA data shows that there are high number of cases in the areas like Butetown, Canton, Pontcanna, Tremorfa.

[goats]

Some weeks ago I would have said yes as the student areas had higher incidence. Now the MSOA data shows that there are high number of cases in the areas like Butetown, Canton, Pontcanna, Tremorfa.

I thought they were testing them en mass before they go home? It’s all set up outside by the uni/welsh office

[xsnaggle]

I thought they were testing them en mass before they go home? It’s all set up outside by the uni/welsh office

That test centre has been up and running for weeks. It's a walk in centre so I believe anyone can go. It was put near the Uni to encourage the students to have a test but is not exclusively for the university.
It will be open after the university closes for Christmas, including Christmas day.
The students are being tested en-masse but with the 20 minute flow test or whatever they call it. They have 2 about 4 days apart and if both are negative they can go home. They only have to attend the Test Centre if they have a positive test. Then need to have the normal more invasive test to confirm.