Wales v England

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Wales v England

Right , we have had a nice chat about the rugby , time to wrap it up now , isn't it

Let's all have a jolly good laugh, shake hands

And get on with talking about CCFC

Thank you , nothing to see here now , move along

Cheers

[xsnaggle]

Re: Wales v England

Right , we have had a nice chat about the rugby , time to wrap it up now , isn't it

Let's all have a jolly good laugh, shake hands

And get on with talking about CCFC

Thank you , nothing to see here now , move along

Cheers

Off you go then.

[MacAdder]

Re: Wales v England

Right , we have had a nice chat about the rugby , time to wrap it up now , isn't it

Let's all have a jolly good laugh, shake hands

And get on with talking about CCFC

Thank you , nothing to see here now , move along

Cheers

I seem to remember Terry Yorath when he played for Leeds finishing his televised game of footie and running over to the side to check out the Wales rugby score (not sure but I think it was vs England).

The commentator remarked on it.

Was he a fan of the egg shaped ball though, or was it just coz he had a few quid on it?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Wales v England

Off you go then.

This is a cardiff city board for cardiff city people

We don't like outsiders round here

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Wales v England

I seem to remember Terry Yorath when he played for Leeds finishing his televised game of footie and running over to the side to check out the Wales rugby score (not sure but I think it was vs England).

The commentator remarked on it.

Was he a fan of the egg shaped ball though, or was it just coz he had a few quid on it?

he was probably ordering some knock off fags

[light up the darkness]

Re: Wales v England

There was one replay which showed that even before the ref blew his whistle for the game to restart England's players are already starting to spread out across the field, albeit sluggishly. A classic case of play the whistle!

This is one of the issues I have with rugby - every stoppage takes an age and takes all the momentum out of the game. I'm actually beginning to dislike the game now because of this, combined with the myriad of petty rules, and only watch the Wales games anyway, more out of a sense of patriotism than anything else. Two examples:

1. Line outs. A player kicks a long ball down field and it goes into touch. The rules allow an opposing player to take a quick throw in to another member of his team which gets the game underway immediately and also means that his side have guaranteed possession of the ball, unlike the normal lineout. How often do we see this? Very rarely.

2. Tap penalties. This used to be a common move when a team is pressing the opposition back into their own 22 and gets the game going again. Hardly ever see it these days.

If there are any rugby experts on here then I stand to be corrected!

I don’t claim to be an expert but happy to offer a couple of observations

If you watch the side that kicked it long the wing is always after it like shot to help prevent a quick throw in. There are fewer opportunities at professional level to take a quick throw in because of the way in which players are coached. The level of detail which the attack and defence coaches put into their respective roles is phenomenal.
Defending ball recovery. Exit strategies from different parts of he pitch. Specific Defensive alignment in broken play and from set pieces.
When a Wales player(s)make a tackle the first option is to attempt a turnover. If the ball is being cycled back to the opposition #9 defensive players disengage and sweep left or right depending on where the defence captain is reading that the next attacking play is coming.
1 Forward will defend either side of the breakdown. Called the gatekeeper. Remaining forwards on their feet deploy in 2/3 man pods.

When attacking Wales often line their forwards 1-1-2-2-2. One particular incident that highlighted this was in the first half when after the ball had passed through several pairs of hands Faletau received the ball in the outside centre position with only Tipuric outside him

Tap penalties are always an option if players in the defence switch off for a moment as on Saturday when Daly turned his back and the Wales #9 saw the gap open up with no full back watching. Coaches will not be happy if you take a quick penalty, run into tacklers and lose the ball or give away a penalty for not releasing. Dwayne Peel used to be very quick with taking quick penalties

I’ll tell you something you rarely or never see these days is a tap penalty where the ball is passed to an oncoming player for him to take the ball into contact. I guess it’s because there is a strong chance that possession will be lost.

I think that refereeing standards vary widely even at international level so refs are very influential especially in closer games.

The tackle/breakdown is poorly ref’d, badly coached and is an example of the shambles which turns off the less studious watcher.

[light up the darkness]

Re: Wales v England

Just a little rider to point 1. The quick throw can only be taken if no one else touches the ball between it entering touch and the player throwing it to a team mate. That means literally anyone, not just another player. It is why you see home team ball boys rushing to get the ball to 'help'. In reality he is stopping that quick throw.
It's one of the reasons why you don't see it too often.

Unless you’re Mike Phillips

https://youtu.be/4YyXTwe6eSw

[Gofer Blue]

Re: Wales v England

Just a little rider to point 1. The quick throw can only be taken if no one else touches the ball between it entering touch and the player throwing it to a team mate. That means literally anyone, not just another player. It is why you see home team ball boys rushing to get the ball to 'help'. In reality he is stopping that quick throw.
It's one of the reasons why you don't see it too often.

Thanks for that, so yet another petty rule that I was not aware of!

[Gofer Blue]

Re: Wales v England

I don’t claim to be an expert but happy to offer a couple of observations

If you watch the side that kicked it long the wing is always after it like shot to help prevent a quick throw in. There are fewer opportunities at professional level to take a quick throw in because of the way in which players are coached. The level of detail which the attack and defence coaches put into their respective roles is phenomenal.
Defending ball recovery. Exit strategies from different parts of he pitch. Specific Defensive alignment in broken play and from set pieces.
When a Wales player(s)make a tackle the first option is to attempt a turnover. If the ball is being cycled back to the opposition #9 defensive players disengage and sweep left or right depending on where the defence captain is reading that the next attacking play is coming.
1 Forward will defend either side of the breakdown. Called the gatekeeper. Remaining forwards on their feet deploy in 2/3 man pods.

When attacking Wales often line their forwards 1-1-2-2-2. One particular incident that highlighted this was in the first half when after the ball had passed through several pairs of hands Faletau received the ball in the outside centre position with only Tipuric outside him

Tap penalties are always an option if players in the defence switch off for a moment as on Saturday when Daly turned his back and the Wales #9 saw the gap open up with no full back watching. Coaches will not be happy if you take a quick penalty, run into tacklers and lose the ball or give away a penalty for not releasing. Dwayne Peel used to be very quick with taking quick penalties

I’ll tell you something you rarely or never see these days is a tap penalty where the ball is passed to an oncoming player for him to take the ball into contact. I guess it’s because there is a strong chance that possession will be lost.

I think that refereeing standards vary widely even at international level so refs are very influential especially in closer games.

The tackle/breakdown is poorly ref’d, badly coached and is an example of the shambles which turns off the less studious watcher.

Thanks for your comments. Yes, as one of the less studious/knowledgeable watchers I agree, a definite turn off.

[MacAdder]

Re: Wales v England

Thanks for that, so yet another petty rule that I was not aware of!

The complicated nature of the rules in rugby leaves things wide open to interpretation and I agree with later posts that it is this that contributes largely to the game being a turn off.

In the days of boot money where the game was far more open and off the cuff, it was a spectacle. I'd often go and watch Cardiff play on bank holidays etc and when there was City game. It wouldn't enter my mind nowadays.

It can still be enjoyable if you get two sides who are willing to throw the ball about but again, with the money on offer these days this is rarely likely to occur.
Its all about power.

My worry is that football, historically a very simple game in comparison with few rules, is going the same way and becoming a bit of a turn off, especially with the inconsistencies regarding VAR.

[Harry Paget Flashman]

Re: Wales v England

I have some sympathy with the one controversial incident, if you want to call it that, when the ref told Farrell to have a word with his players. But what’s wrong with the try where Zammit drops the ball that then comes off his leg that then gets picked up for a try. He mishandled but can it be a knock on if it has come off his leg, with the ball then going backwards anyway?

I’m a casual viewer and liked the game when I was younger and have a broadly decent hang of the rules, as they were then, although age obviously takes its toll of course!

It's 100% a knock on. First movement of the ball went forward and he never regained control of it.

[MacAdder]

Re: Wales v England

It's 100% a knock on. First movement of the ball went forward and he never regained control of it.

Thats what I thought, Zammit himself too, but the rulebook apparently says it wasnt (a knock on that is)

[Harry Paget Flashman]

Re: Wales v England

Thats what I thought, Zammit himself too, but the rulebook apparently says it wasnt (a knock on that is)

In the Pro 14 a few weeks back a player juggled the ball forward with his first touch and in attempting to regather it knocked it backwards over his head and onto the floor.

It was given as a knock on.

Nigel Owens was on Scrum V last night clarifying the rule and he said it was a knock on as per the laws.

[MacAdder]

Re: Wales v England

In the Pro 14 a few weeks back a player juggled the ball forward with his first touch and in attempting to regather it knocked it backwards over his head and onto the floor.

It was given as a knock on.

Nigel Owens was on Scrum V last night clarifying the rule and he said it was a knock on as per the laws.

Crazy they even spent 5 minutes looking at the TMO, who must be the same idiot running the VAR at the Chelsea MU game yesterday!

No wonder they're all seething on t'other side of bridge

[Harry Paget Flashman]

Re: Wales v England

Crazy they even spent 5 minutes looking at the TMO, who must be the same idiot running the VAR at the Chelsea MU game yesterday!

No wonder they're all seething on t'other side of bridge

He's apologised today and said he got them both wrong.

The TMO doesn't help on the knock on though. What was he looking at?