Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[xsnaggle]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-56623504

Clean up work is under way after huge crowds gathered in Cardiff Bay on Friday, despite coronavirus restrictions still being in place.

Cardiff council said a significant amount of rubbish had been left by "large groups of people intent on breaking Covid-19 restrictions".

Total stupidity - and the same over much of the UK. We had the same in Sheffield over the past 3 days!

It is stupidity but....... government in this country is by consent and it seems that as the vaccine rolls out the level of consent to the restraints is reducing, in some places quite rapidly. It will be a conundrum for the politician, keeping the public on side but still doing the right long term thing.
I'm glad it's their problem and not mine.

[surge]

It is stupidity but....... government in this country is by consent and it seems that as the vaccine rolls out the level of consent to the restraints is reducing, in some places quite rapidly. It will be a conundrum for the politician, keeping the public on side but still doing the right long term thing.
I'm glad it's their problem and not mine.

i) at least one knife found, reports of 30 fighting and throwing glass bottles at each other, massive amounts of rubbish left despite there being empty bins.

ii) rejection of covid rules due to sunshine, fatigue and potentially other factors.

Think it's a lot easier to be sympathetic if all the crowds were doing was drinking and having a good time but less so with everything else going on. For some it's a rejection of any rules/standards of behaviour rather than just covid ones.

[xsnaggle]

i) at least one knife found, reports of 30 fighting and throwing glass bottles at each other, massive amounts of rubbish left despite there being empty bins.

ii) rejection of covid rules due to sunshine, fatigue and potentially other factors.

Think it's a lot easier to be sympathetic if all the crowds were doing was drinking and having a good time but less so with everything else going on. For some it's a rejection of any rules/standards of behaviour rather than just covid ones.

I agree but sometimes the apparent rejection of all rules is like the pendulum. It swings one way then it swing back the other. The average person is fed up with the lockdowns and the laws and rules, and although they understand deep down they are necessary they still want their freedom of movement and life so they will push back, and the more that the numbers come down the more they will push.
The knife thing is something that is always there with some strata of society and I don't believe it has anything directly to do with the pandemic

[goats]

I agree but sometimes the apparent rejection of all rules is like the pendulum. It swings one way then it swing back the other. The average person is fed up with the lockdowns and the laws and rules, and although they understand deep down they are necessary they still want their freedom of movement and life so they will push back, and the more that the numbers come down the more they will push.
The knife thing is something that is always there with some strata of society and I don't believe it has anything directly to do with the pandemic

Unfortunately knife crime is on the rise in Cardiff, I guess they are copying the London gangs. There already is a particularly violent gang from the south of the city. They need to come down hard on carrying one because plenty are already are and it’s inevitable what will end up occurring.

[Croesy Blue]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-56623504

Clean up work is under way after huge crowds gathered in Cardiff Bay on Friday, despite coronavirus restrictions still being in place.

Cardiff council said a significant amount of rubbish had been left by "large groups of people intent on breaking Covid-19 restrictions".

Total stupidity - and the same over much of the UK. We had the same in Sheffield over the past 3 days!

While I think the littering is bad (there are never enough bins) outdoor spread is no where near indoor spread and people have been locked up for over 4 months and now they’re allowed out but nothing is open.

I don’t know what else people expect others to do (especially young people who are giving up the best years to protect others).

[the other bob wilson]

4,000 dead in a day in Brazil, good job they have a "strong leader".

[A Quiet Monkfish]

I agree but sometimes the apparent rejection of all rules is like the pendulum. It swings one way then it swing back the other. The average person is fed up with the lockdowns and the laws and rules, and although they understand deep down they are necessary they still want their freedom of movement and life so they will push back, and the more that the numbers come down the more they will push.
The knife thing is something that is always there with some strata of society and I don't believe it has anything directly to do with the pandemic

Considering young people, ie under 30, haven't had any social mixing, going out, pubs, clubs, parties for over a year, and the 1st couple of days of Easter hols are bathed in sunshine, plus they're practically immune to the virus, then something like this is not really surprising.

[the other bob wilson]

Considering young people, ie under 30, haven't had any social mixing, going out, pubs, clubs, parties for over a year, and the 1st couple of days of Easter hols are bathed in sunshine, plus they're practically immune to the virus, then something like this is not really surprising.

I agree, as someone who thought the first lockdown would fall apart after about a fortnight, I've been surprised by how well observed they've been by young people.

[City123]

I agree, as someone who thought the first lockdown would fall apart after about a fortnight, I've been surprised by how well observed they've been by young people.

Agreed. Though there still seems to be a perception that young people are selfish, they've given up a lot over the past year to protect older generations from this virus and will be the ones who'll have to pick up the pieces from the economic fallout

[the other bob wilson]

Alternative to AZ vaccine to be offered to Under 30s in the U.K. - it's becoming clearer that it wasn't just a bunch of Europeans getting back at us for Brexit after all.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56665517

[Elwood Blues]

Alternative to AZ vaccine to be offered to Under 30s in the U.K. - it's becoming clearer that it wasn't just a bunch of Europeans getting back at us for Brexit after all.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56665517

Are you watching the news conference Bob?

Once again Van Tam is showing that he is head and shoulders above any politician in this country at presenting this sort of news

He is as usual calm precise and clear'


I agree that this particular point about the blood clotting is nothing to do with Europeans getting at us. From all I have heard from various scientists in the UK about what normally happens in these situations these countries were probably too cautious in having a complete ban on such little evidence but I don't think there was anything political in it

However some of the EU's earlier tactics ( eg Macron saying that the Astra Zeneca vaccine was "quasi ineffective" in the over 65's and other French ministers sneering at us because we were allowing a 12 week instead of a 4 week gap and thus delaying getting our population fully vaccinated ) plus of course the heavy handedness of the EU commission when they were trying to hide their own procrastination in sorting our the vaccines in the summer of last year rather poisoned the atmosphere which played into the hands of those in this country. It was all completely unnecessary in my view but we are where we areears

How much those earlier tactics were getting back as us for Brexit will probably keep political commentators and historians going for years.

[goats]

Alternative to AZ vaccine to be offered to Under 30s in the U.K. - it's becoming clearer that it wasn't just a bunch of Europeans getting back at us for Brexit after all.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56665517

How many under 30’s have had the Oxford jab and have developed clots or died then?

[the other bob wilson]

How many under 30’s have had the Oxford jab and have developed clots or died then?

Clearly there’s enough concern among the people who know most about this to have offered the alternative.

[the other bob wilson]

Are you watching the news conference Bob?

Once again Van Tam is showing that he is head and shoulders above any politician in this country at presenting this sort of news

He is as usual calm precise and clear'


I agree that this particular point about the blood clotting is nothing to do with Europeans getting at us. From all I have heard from various scientists in the UK about what normally happens in these situations these countries were probably too cautious in having a complete ban on such little evidence but I don't think there was anything political in it

However some of the EU's earlier tactics ( eg Macron saying that the Astra Zeneca vaccine was "quasi ineffective" in the over 65's and other French ministers sneering at us because we were allowing a 12 week instead of a 4 week gap and thus delaying getting our population fully vaccinated ) plus of course the heavy handedness of the EU commission when they were trying to hide their own procrastination in sorting our the vaccines in the summer of last year rather poisoned the atmosphere which played into the hands of those in this country. It was all completely unnecessary in my view but we are where we areears

How much those earlier tactics were getting back as us for Brexit will probably keep political commentators and historians going for years.

Didn’t see the conference, but I agree about Van Tam. The EU cocked up for sure, but the concerns about the vaccine were genuine it would appear, so some of the jingoistic we were seeing about a fortnight ago in some sections of the media was misplaced as well as childish

[goats]

Clearly there’s enough concern among the people who know most about this to have offered the alternative.

20 deaths in 20 million doses covering all ages....can they even link it to the jab?

[Elwood Blues]

Didn’t see the conference, but I agree about Van Tam. The EU cocked up for sure, but the concerns about the vaccine were genuine it would appear, so some of the jingoistic we were seeing about a fortnight ago in some sections of the media was misplaced as well as childish

Jeremy Brown who is a professor of Respiratory Medicine at University College London has just on Newsnight criticised those countries who he said rapidly suspended the vaccine in age groups where the risk benefit clearly supported still using it, and by stopping the jab have probably causes more deaths than they would have done if they had carried on with it.

It is unquantifiable now, but maybe the original unjustified comments made by some countries didn't help Astra Zeneca when the clotting problem came up.

As for being childish I don't disagree that some of the press were, but the EU by their initial actions ( and some since!) threw their toys out of the tram.

To be fair to our government I think they have behaved pretty responsibly over this matter (that hasn't,as you would agree, always been the case in recent years) and have made the EU look stupid and unreasonable over the vaccination issue

[the other bob wilson]

Jeremy Brown who is a professor of Respiratory Medicine at University College London has just on Newsnight criticised those countries who he said rapidly suspended the vaccine in age groups where the risk benefit clearly supported still using it, and by stopping the jab have probably causes more deaths than they would have done if they had carried on with it.

It is unquantifiable now, but maybe the original unjustified comments made by some countries didn't help Astra Zeneca when the clotting problem came up.

As for being childish I don't disagree that some of the press were, but the EU by their initial actions ( and some since!) threw their toys out of the tram.

To be fair to our government I think they have behaved pretty responsibly over this matter (that hasn't,as you would agree, always been the case in recent years) and have made the EU look stupid and unreasonable over the vaccination issue

I think our embarrassment of an Education Secretary was making childish comments when it came to comparing us with the EU well before they were.having public doubts about “our” vaccine;-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55175162

However, I agree that the UK Government have, effectively, let their record do their talking when it came to the vaccine. I’ve been very critical of the UK Government for their overall handling of the pandemic and will continue to be, but I have to accept that they’ve done well when it comes to the vaccine roll out - if people want to see the dispute between the EU and the UK over the vaccine as some kind of war, then I agree that we’re winning it at the moment.

[the other bob wilson]

I've never understand the anti Vaxer/Covid denier thing and so I was happy to read this to try and find out more about it. I certainly sympathise with Anna, but as for the rest, I'm none the wiser;-

https://www.theguardian.com/news/202...-anti-lockdown

[lardy]

I've never understand the anti Vaxer/Covid denier thing and so I was happy to read this to try and find out more about it. I certainly sympathise with Anna, but as for the rest, I'm none the wiser;-

https://www.theguardian.com/news/202...-anti-lockdown

Good read.

I don't think I fully understand it. The businessman who lives in Monaco, for example, says people think 'theres something a bit fishy about it'.

Fishy in what way? I can understand why people make think the measures are extreme and not necessary, but why would the whole world suddenly do it to themselves as some deliberate act?

[Michael Morris]

Gyms and household mixing changes brought forward

Gyms will be allowed to reopen and people will be able to form extended households a week earlier than planned in Wales, the first minister has said.

Gyms and leisure centres will be able to open from 3 May - instead of 10 May - while two households can bubble up to meet indoors from the same date.

Wedding receptions outdoors for up to 30 people will be allowed from 26 April, also moving forward a week.

A drop in Covid cases has prompted the changes, the Welsh government said.

The dates for reopening the hospitality industry have not changed - pubs, cafes and restaurants will still be able to reopen outdoors from 26 April.

First Minister Mark Drakeford also confirmed that lockdown changes which had been planned for 12 April would go ahead.

This means, from Monday, all remaining children will return to school for face-to-face learning, non-essential shops will reopen, close-contact services, like beauticians, will be allowed to reopen and restrictions on travelling in and out of Wales to other parts of the UK will be lifted.

The decision follows a rapid drop in the number of new coronavirus cases in Wales.

Wales' case rate, which measures the number of infections per 100,000 people over a seven-day period, stands at 21, compared to 37 last week.

Confirmed cases in hospital beds are 26% lower than last Thursday, the lowest number since 22 September.

[blue matt]

[B]

This means, from Monday, all remaining children will return to school for face-to-face learning, non-essential shops will reopen, close-contact services, like beauticians, will be allowed to reopen and restrictions on travelling in and out of Wales to other parts of the UK will be lifted.

I didnt realise that some children were still home from school in Wales, my mum had said the young lad next door was still off, but i thought she had got that wrong

So they have been off school since Christmas

[goats]

Israel herd immunity......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56722186

[City123]

Israel herd immunity......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56722186

'"I would say that we should not be looking for 'herd immunity' alone as a sign that we can lift all public health measures and get back to 'normal'," Dr Pitt explained. Rather we should be looking for consistently low levels of Covid-19 infection".'

I was always under the impression that the real reason for lockdowns were hospitalisations and not over running the health service? Now I understand that more cases led to more hospitalisations, however shouldn't this be lessened by the vaccine? Presumably we could be in a scenario whereby cases are relatively high but severe cases resulting in hospitalisations and deaths are relatively low?

I'm no virologist and am happy to be corrected, but it does feel like the rationale for lockdowns are changing a bit

[Optimistic Nick]

Didn’t see the conference, but I agree about Van Tam. The EU cocked up for sure, but the concerns about the vaccine were genuine it would appear, so some of the jingoistic we were seeing about a fortnight ago in some sections of the media was misplaced as well as childish

I think the point is that:

- IF there is a link between clotting and the jab then it is very weak
- For old people: they'd be far, far more likely to die from COVID than the clotting (IF there is a link). So it is beneficial to jab them EVEN IF there is a risk of clotting.
- For young people: they are very, very unlikley to die from COVID and so IF there is a risk of clotting, then the number of young people who die from clotting would be far closer to the number that are prevented from dying of COVID because they have had the vaccine. So the benefit of having it for any one person does not so obviously outweigh the risk IF there is a link to clotting
- But overall, having young people vaccinated is a Good Thing as it may help stop the spread EVEN IF the young person having the jab would likely be asyptomatic.

That does sort of make sense to me. There is some uncertainty as regards the link; even with the link it is a no-brainer for older people; but a bit less clear cut for the younger ones so give them the other jabs (although it's not like the other ones come with no risk of some bizarre side-effect either).

[Gofer Blue]

Covid-19: India added to red list 'may be too late', Prof Mark Walport says.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56813025

Will the UK government please wake up. We are an island nation so ought to be ideally placed when it comes to isolating ourselves from these new variants. Between 25 March and 7 April alone, there were 3,345 arrivals from India!