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The man was all over the shop , he agreed with a social europe but was against what he and other left wing Labour MPs saw as a capitalist super state . I didn't agree with him . But the point of this thread is that it was the tories in their manifesto who said every penny of e u funding lost would be replaced ......so vote for us
Bridgend did .......and they are now told well actually you can't have any
I think you'll fond he was.
The surely you're not stupid enough to argue otherwise is a sly old trick sludge. If the person doesn't argue it means you win the point and if they do you can say they are stupid. But it isn't really a fact is it?
The prime mover for remain was a tory and a lot of pro leave were labour, as you can see by the areas that voted for out.
Or are you suggesting that labour voters voted for Brexit because labour voters are stupid and couldn't see the real facts as someone of your intellect can?
If you are suggesting that then maybe the vote for the tories in the following election was them stupidly thinking that it would corret their stupidity. Maybe!!!!
So you think that the prime mover to remain was a tory ?
Cameron ?
Cameron was all about Cameron
Ken Clarke was a moderate , left leaning tory who spoke a lot of sense , most of the tory party were anti Europe and had been since Thatcher turned up
The voters were conned
It will all come out in the wash and this latest trick , which you have completely failed to comment on , is just the start 👌
You are clearly far far better informed than everyone else, who was the "prime mover" as you call it?
As I said you obviously feel you are far more astute than the average labour voter who were apparently stupid enough to vote for Brexit. So what do you suggest, that anyone who disagrees with your opinion should be ineligible to vote?
The Brexit argument is like Soviet communism, its gone, done with, finished. Live with both things.
No one can know for sure, but most number crunchers think that about 30% of people who voted Labour in 2017 also voted Leave in the Brexit Referendum.
So the average Labour voter was smart enough to vote Remain!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48039984
Well the post above seems to suggest that 70 percent of labour voters were remain , so it appears I was correct
But this thread isn't about who is clever
Its about the tory manifesto promise that areas that lost EU money would have every penny of that money replaced by the conservatives community fund
And its a complete lie
And you , as a tory , support that
You can either answer the question or ........
There you go stating opinion as fact again because it suits your agenda. You actually just spout bullshit.
So 70% of labour supporters voted remain and the other 30% were too stupid to vote, is that what you mean?
And you sneakily change your stance from the Brexit vote to the Tory manifesto. you can't just keep moving the goal posts just to suit your argument when you're losing sludge.
You know that the labour party as it stands is a spent force and until there is a better alternative to the Conservative party we'll just have to live with it.
All your shouting and raving about things that are gone done and dusted are just fecking boring.
So wind your neck i9n and stop bleating like a trapped goat.
of course I am , I gave you the list of direct action I took and have taken against racism and the policies of the right . I hated Blair
Didn't see you confronting the racist English defence league ?
Where were you ?
Busy ?
Marched against the invasion of Iraq in London, and cardiff
Were you there ?
Or too busy reading books on socialist philosophy 🤔
All mouth
See you the next time the far right march in Cardiff
On the front line
Don't wear your sandals
I know all about your old man , I spoke to him
I am talking about you
I marched against the invasion of Iraq, in London and Cardiff
I nearly got flattened after informing the police of Cardiff city fans spitting in the faces of black players warming up at an away game
And when the far right English defence league came to Cardiff I was there
And you call me a blairite ?
Do yourself a favour ff sake
Time for bed
a coach from Bolton became an open top version with no windows
They had to go home by train and they were met by a welcoming cultural atache group at Cardiff Central , some large chaps
Who wernt interested in exchanging gifts
They were very quiet being walked into the back of Cardiff Central
Don't think they enjoyed their visit to Cardiff
I was on both demos, the anti invasion of Iraq, with my mother, father and missus, and the Edl one in Cardiff with my mother as my dad was on his way out at that point. I've been on countless anti fascist demos, attended meetings, confronted fascist wankers, removed from my house twice as a child and picked up by the police from school because the NF were threatening to kidnap me and my sister or fire bomb our house. I've seen my mother spat at while I was at her side as a child and she was told that she wasn't even worth raping. All that by nazi scum.
I've done my share and will continue to do so. You know **** all sludge.
Sludge, Centrist is right wing, it's a natural leaning towards the right, always has been, it can't be anything else, same as most independents. You may be anti war, but you want a right wing labour party, or one that appeases the right. That's your business i suppose. You talk of left wing politics as some kind of fantasy, a non reality, the stuff of the immature, the youthful dreamer. Sorry mate, you've jumped into bed with the right wing media and the politicians (Like Nandy and Co) who are Tory to the core. They try and dress up their right wing views by trying to sound fair and rational about their real intentions.
Centre is centre , left it left , right is right , being a centralist in my view doesn't make you left wing or right wing ,love the fact everyone loves a mainly centrist social democratic Europe , are they right wing as well ?
Words are words, and labels are labels, and gibberish is the new analysis.
So you 'love the fact everyone loves a mainly centrist social democratic Europe'? Are you basing this insight on the make up of the Commission, the Parliament or the governments/parliaments of the member states?
I'm sure that Europe (the EU) is not social democratic in any of those cases. Of the 703 MEPs in the Parliament, only 145 are social democrats. Or are you making the case for 'centrist' parties (abandoning its use in this thread in relation to right wing Labourism?) to include Christian Democrats, some Liberals and other assorted conservatives? If so they barely make up half the Parliament, with all of them losing votes over recent times to socialists, left populists, Greens, right populists/nationalists and born again Nazis.