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I’ll admit I don’t have enough knowledge of the subject to fully back up my thoughts but what Israel is doing to Palestine, on the face of it is bloody awful.
It does seem to me that the Palestinian’s don’t help themselves by sparking some tensions but Israel do look like bully boys.
I don’t understand how the world leaders are not issuing comments or sanctions as they would if it was another country.
Its like trying to beat up a giant when you are 5 foot tall , blind and have one hand tied behind your backOriginally Posted by WJ99mobile
Since the state of Israel was formed more and more land has been stolen off the arabs
I would be fecking pissed off if my new next door neighbour kept moving the fence further into my garden
And all my other neighbours just stood by and watched
Which is exactly what is happening
Are you going to ignore the Arabs invading Israel twice ?
Read a ****ing book. Israel in an idea. A very bad one. It's Arab territory. The state of Israel was under consideration to be in Australia. It should be in Poland/Germany. Israel was created in 1948 and has been in conflict ever since.
He knows all of this. Palestine was actually invaded by Arabs before Israel was.
As long as the USA finances, arms and uses Israel as its middle east proxy state, and (often with the UK and some major EU countries) provides diplomatic and UN veto cover for every breach of international law (which happens constantly) then any Israeli government has a 'get out of gaol free' card.
Biden has changed the language from the stuff we got from Trump, but in practical terms he is continuing the traditional US role:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...us-on-conflict
Churchill has so many things to answer for. The Balkans and the Middle East are but two major ongoing disasters of his model of diplomacy.
It all started when he was secretary of state for the colonies in 1921and his machinations went on for the next 26 years
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...le-east-legacy
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentages_agreement
And 100 years later it’s still fkd
Aren't all countries an idea?
As for Israel, the Jews beliefe it to be their homeland, so I guess Australia was a non starter
Israel and Palestine are pretty much cotermimous, certainly historically
It's terrible, downright upsetting even!
There is absolutely no reason why these families are being killed.
Israel was stupidly created in the middle of Arab land . They have been expanding ever since . Of course the arabs are going to strike back . I would .
And this is why religious beliefs are so utterly stupid and causes so much hassle
[QUOTE=SLUDGE FACTORY;5192063]Its like trying to beat up a giant when you are 5 foot tall , blind and have one hand tied behind your back
Since the state of Israel was formed more and more land has been stolen off the arabs
I would be fecking pissed off if my new next door neighbour kept moving the fence further into my garden
And all my other neighbours just stood by and watched
Which is exactly what is happening[/QUOT
Would you fire 1, 500 rockets at the neighbours though knowing what the response would be to the innocent civilians living around the launch sites ??
Who funds this stuff ??
[QUOTE=life on mars;5192113]What else can they do ?
Go on a 3 day week ?
We can't help them , we are too busy selling bombs to Saudi Arabia
[QUOTE=SLUDGE FACTORY;5192114]It smells of two sides with weak governments , Abbas Fatah party of Palestinian needs to allow for a democratic election he won't because of state sponsored Hamas don't get on withing Palestine , Abas is seen as weak as Hamas are seen as strong as they fire thousands of rockets , whilst Israel cannot reach a majority government after many elections, so both countries are at war within its boundaries and outside , its a mess however no amount of rockets will fix this, on top of all this is the hatred of Israel of others such Iran and Syria who want them eradicated and destroyed, sadly no one will yield.
Strange stance by Joe Biden on this one, 🤔 the alleged sensible party in the USA, must be worrying about votes.
You have to feel for the Palestinians , caught up in this, living In poverty ,whoever funds these rocket's should also help feed the starving as well.
It's a horrible situation.
If you defend the Palestinians you are accused of being anti-Semitic whereas if you defend Israel you're accused of being a Zionist. It's a no win situation.
Personally I have no issues with the existence of Israel, but their behaviour and outright murderous actions towards the Palestinians is a disgrace and the international community should make them accountable and even force them to return land that has been illegally taken form Palestinians. Israel continues to break international law while many countries continue to supply them with endless amounts of undesignated funds. The Palestinians live in appalling conditions and levels of daily hate and persecution towards them by the Israeli authorities is disgusting and inhumane. No wonder young men are gonna get pissed off and fight back... seeing lack of jobs, health, education and daily persecution towards themselves and their families.
Saying that, Hamas and the surrounding Arab nations have done the people of Palestine no favours at all. Hamas put people at risk and use human shields. The surrounding Arab nations stand by watching, without supporting Palestinians with health, education and infrastructure, as it suits their agenda to keep them poor and angry towards Israel.
It's not a fair fight by any stretch of the imagination. Israel are bullies who cry foul when get hit back.
A two state solution is the only answer. Palestine must be recognised as a sovereign state and therefore gain the recognition and resources needed to improve life for their citizens. I fear Hamas and Israel would never make the necessary compromises needed for that to happen.
A terrible situation.
Its not going to happen
Its an abyss
I’ve never really met many Israelis, but when I was travelling around India 15 yrs ago I met a few. They barely stray from their own kind and didn’t mix with us much. Of the few conversations about what’s going on now most seemed adamant about the land they already had and a couple said they needed to take out the Gaza Strip to rid it of hamas. Looks like that could happen now. I think it’s like Spain to them, they all go particularly after the two years national service they have to do. Strange folks but some stunning ladies amongst them.
The other problem is Hamas controls Gaza in the name of Palestinians and Fatah in the West Bank creating almost to Palestinians .
A lot of Israelis and Palestinians are in favour of a two state system it's other forces stopping this, there is evil on both sides with Israel force definitely disproportionate, however what do you do if someone fires thousands of rockets at you and wants your existence banished .
We know where Israel arms wealth comes from , were not 100% sure where Hamas wealth comes from , we can guess its not a friend of the jew ??
Iran?
[QUOTE=life on mars;5192113]Iran are the backers of Hamas.Hamas's aim is to destroy Israel and create an islamic republic,so there is no way Israel can bring them to the negotiating table.
I met a group while in Sydney in 93, i have never met such a group of arrogant self entitled people in my life, they looked down on everyone, made no difference if they were Europeans, Australians or Asians, i couldn't stand them, one of our group got friendly with one of the girls so we somewhat got linked that way, I then met a Lebanese girl ( well her parents were ) and to say they she hated them was a understatement ( understandable ) so that was my excuse to tell them to never speak to me again
I think it's important not to generalise too much.I met a group while in Sydney in 93, i have never met such a group of arrogant self entitled people in my life, they looked down on everyone, made no difference if they were Europeans, Australians or Asians, i couldn't stand them, one of our group got friendly with one of the girls so we somewhat got linked that way, I then met a Lebanese girl ( well her parents were ) and to say they she hated them was a understatement ( understandable ) so that was my excuse to tell them to never speak to me again
Jewish people are some of the loveliest and funniest people on the planet.
Look at our very own Elliott Cantor, a lovely guy.
Also, at famous Jewish people like Larry David, Bernie Saunders, Jason Alexander etc... all very nice, generous and funny people.
It's important not to conflate Jewish people with the actions of the Israeli Government. Sanders in particular is very outspoken against the current Israeli regime.
It's a horrible situation, and difficult to see how it will ever be resolved.
In my mind they should never have set it up where they did, but now it is there it cannot be undone.
The people in charge on both sides are murderous extremists, but it is easy to see how the far right gets traction in extreme circumstances. If all of us were born in Gaza then a significant number would be supporting Hamas, and likewise with Israel and their military actions. The average age in Gaza is 17, and so many of them will have personally known people who have been murdered by the Israeli state.
What is the end point of all this?
Th current cycle of violence merely fuels more terrorists in Gaza and more harsh reprisals from Israel. Perhaps that suits Israel, as it gives them reasons to continue to expand into Palestinian land. But what happens when they have it all?
Even considering jus the land they already de-facto control there are more arab people living there than Jewish - what is the long term strategy there?
Bring them all under the umbrella of one nation and it is no longer a Jewish state - while that wouldn't be a problem for me, you cannot imagine that the people in Israel would allow that.
So wht are the other options? they are all monstrous.
Continue to allow the Arabic people to live there as second class citizens, unable to vote? that doesn't seem like a stable long term solution - it would inevitably lead to uprisings and bloodshed
Deport all of the Arabic people?
Worse?
And you can ask the same of the Gaza terrorists - what is their ultimate endpoint - clearly they cannot win any direct conflict with Israel, so will they just keep this cycle of violence going forever? If the population weren't so pressured and the people lived more comfortable lives then you wuld imagine that support for the far right would drop off rapidly - after all there's no reason to think they are any different deep down than you or I.
Th whole think is just so depressing.
Excellent, if not depressing, post Rjk.
Exactly my feelings on the situation.
Glad at least there are some reasonable views shared on here. Social media is awash with extreme nonsense on either side. I am staying clear of the discussion.
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