Reply With QuoteI wonder what she thinks now?Originally Posted by xsnaggle
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If the Indian variant becomes established here and things turn out as bad as some of the modelling suggests, then Governments that allowed travel to and from India this spring deserve criticism no matter what party they represent surely? However, it appears that Wales and Northern Ireland have different rules to England and Scotland. This piece
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56806103
From April talks of there being no direct international flights into Wales and Northern Ireland at that time and as travel into Wales from England was not allowed then I believe, there was an effective ban at that time.
Current rules are set out here;-
https://gov.wales/rules-foreign-trav...-covid-19-html
So, on this subject at least, my reading is that whether you wanted to blame Welsh and Uk Governments equally would be very much down to the individual as it seems Wales could argue that their rules were more stringent.
I wonder what she thinks now?
Why does someone always have to be 'to blame'? It is in every facet of life today. The blame culture.
I was trying to answer Vindec’s question, I didn’t know what the rules were in Wales when it came to travel to and from India, so tried to find out, but it doesn’t seem completely straightforward.
I think people are losing their perspective on this. However much people argue about politics and apportion blame the truth is that this virus has no respect for rules and regulations, and probably doesn't understand that it is not allowed to cross the Severn Bridge.
Ok Wales has no direct international flights, but that just means that Welsh people wanting to travel go to Heathrow, Manchester, Birmingham etc..travelling further in UK and mixing with more people en route.
When Wales travel restrictions were in place the traffic flow across the Severn Bridge was still very heavy, same on the A55.Life goes on and people have to travel to work and on business. And at the end of their journey they meet other people and the virus spreads.
Personally I think the UK is too small for 4 home nations to play to different rules. Governments, particularly in Wales and Scotland have made this a political blame game.
But in practice does that mean:
- Places in Glasgow where average lifespan is closer to 60 than 90 are treated the same as the places in London where reverse is true? We know that things like age, health, wealth are useful predictors for worst effects of this virus.
- Central belt of Scotland which had measures put in place during winter much earlier than elsewhere has those measures delayed? We know that over half the death occurred based on spread around this time and England delayed action so much that schools went back for one day in the new year
- On the flip side Scotland was quickest to identify that children and outside were the safest. Does your one nation approach mean young children are more isolated because they still count to the rule of 6 as they did in England for far, far longer? If I remember correctly, young children had to wear masks in England at a much earlier stage too for similar reason.
Of course it makes it far simpler and easier to understand if the rules are the same across 4 nations, but I initially disagree strongly with your analysis (unless you're saying Boris would significantly change his approach to take into consideration the above?) and would be interested to know your answers to questions raised.
As I said, some people are losing their perspective on this.
In board terms England has 80% population of UK, Scotland 10%, Wales & NI 5% each. What England does is having the biggest impact on UK simply because of the numbers.
Getting into sub groups of the population of Glasgow is the same as getting into sub-groups of the population of Cardiff...it is interesting information, but when you are talking of a virus that has infected 4.5million of us in UK it's hardly relevant.
As you say age, health, wealth are useful predictors and we have used these Uk wide to protect for example the elderly through lockdowns, but if you are suggesting that different rules should apply based on where you live in Cardiff or Glasgow, or London that's impractical and misses the point.
This virus has no regard for who we are, what we are, or our age. All it needs is human to human contact to infect. The rules that have helped keep it at bay are the simple rules that everyone can understand...hygiene, space, stay home etc.
Glad to say the whole of UK adopted these measures. Whether one country does it ahead of another is for debate, because when to comes to results in terms of population protection in UK the outcomes are similar.
Who's fault is that in your opinion?
Probably the press and lawyers, one trying to sell stories the other odious lot encouraging people to start litigation for everything that goes wrong in their lives.
Of course it is never ever their own fault for anything. God forbid!!!!
Some more encouraging news regarding the Indian variant.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57134181
My boy is 20. He phoned up for a vaccination on Friday and had it this morning in Splott.
Well pleased!
PS. Should have been in the bay but apparently they had problems this morning but the NHS called up at short notice to rearrange. Well done for that too.
My 19 year old vaccinated Friday couple of days after going on reserve list.
I don't think you've engaged with what I've said, but you might feel I didn't engage with you initially.
This article is interesting: https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/p...-most-20528778
Given list of issues raised, it's likely that a UK approach to engaging with firebreak or stronger restrictions afterwards would have produced a longer lasting dampening down of virus numbers in Wales but, based on the population numbers in each nation which you raised, it's far more likely that Wales would have been in worse position based on no firebreak and even later second lockdown. I would highlight that not testing those moving back into care homes was a one UK approach and is going to be the most difficult thing to explain in reviews.
But as you want to focus on the virus itself, I would agree that the virus isn't sentient and that one approach would have made things easier, and at times more effective, but saying the virus doesn't care about who we are, what we are, or our age suggests a skewed understanding on a) how it spreads and b) where it has the worst impact.
Good news....Always seemed likely the vaccines would still work as essentially it’s the same virus albeit slightly mutated again.
One thing I wonder is it appears to be getting more transmissible every few months, can it get anymore from the original to Kent to Indian? Does it even matter as long as the vaccines and virus operate the same way.....
Great news
Yes, that sounds very encouraging.
Thank you for the link to the Wales on line. Maybe Wales does have the worse outcomes, I don't know, but if so it's likely to be because of demographic factors more than anything else. You make some points about what may or may not have been happening in Wales because of political decisions, what Im saying is that these make marginal differences to the UK overall and in many instances are done just to be different. Tomorrow 30 people can gather in England. In Wales in the same circumstances 50 people can gather. Two governments looking at the same data and coming to very different decisions. Its just daft and confuses people.
Then last week our First minister boasting that we have the lowest rates in UK and the best vaccination rates...just politics and unnecessary and not strictly true.
Regarding the virus, I have a very good understanding of microbiology, having worked in the area for many years, and understand how Covid spreads and it's varying impact on individuals based on degree of exposure, age, individuals overall health and their environment.
Would you say, that press and lawyers, are to blame
I give up. I post something which I think reflects what the scientific community are urging about the Indian variant and people come back attacking the paper carrying the stories because it's "a lefty rag", so I post the same story from a source which has no reputation for being left wing and that gets ignored. Someone then brings up party politics, which I had made no mention of, and I do some research into what the rules are concerning travel to red zone countries like India in Wales compared to other countries in the UK and conclude that whether you think Wales can be blamed in the same way some are seeking to blame the UK Government for not stopping travel to India is very much down to the individual and I'm then told I'm losing perspective
Seeing as others have brought party politics into this, wouldn't it be fair to say that, in general through 2020, the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish Governments were more cautious in their decision making when it came to things like easing regulations last summer and going into lockdowns in the autumn and around Christmas? Therefore, couldn't it be argued that it was the UK/English Government that was playing by "different rules" and not the other three?
Big milestone today allowing restaurants to open.
It may as well happen - people are not listening to the rules and seem more arbitrary than ever. I went into a packed gym yesterday but I wasn't allowed to fill up my water bottle.
Beginning of the end I think
I could have sworn that this exchange started with me asking why must someone always be to blame? Didn't you read that bit?
Who said it is a left rag? I never saw anyone do that and I don't think the articles deserve dismissal on that basis.
got it now. Silly comment really it detracts from the argument. I think the G often has some very good articles but I also think that some people pick and choose the ones they like to pass on. But that's only natural I suppose
Last edited by xsnaggle; 17-05-21 at 06:16. Reason: new information
Take a bigger bottle maybe, the world will still turn.......
I give up. I post something which I think reflects what the scientific community are urging about the Indian variant and people come back attacking the paper carrying the stories because it's "a lefty rag", so I post the same story from a source which has no reputation for being left wing and that gets ignored. Someone then brings up party politics, which I had made no mention of, and I do some research into what the rules are concerning travel to red zone countries like India in Wales compared to other countries in the UK and conclude that whether you think Wales can be blamed in the same way some are seeking to blame the UK Government for not stopping travel to India is very much down to the individual and I'm then told I'm losing perspective
Seeing as others have brought party politics into this, wouldn't it be fair to say that, in general through 2020, the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish Governments were more cautious in their decision making when it came to things like easing regulations last summer and going into lockdowns in the autumn and around Christmas? Therefore, couldn't it be argued that it was the UK/English Government that was playing by "different rules" and not the other three?
The English ( UK) Government's actions related to Covid cover 80% approx of the UK population. Wales has a very porous 120 mile long border with England, so whatever England decides has a major effect on the Welsh population. On the big issues we are united UK wide....Hands..Face..Space..Vaccinations..the rest is tinkering around the edges, and being used by Wales and Scotland in particular to make political points.
As I said in the previous post, from today England allows outdoor meetings of groups up to 30 in number. In Wales we allow it for groups up to 50. It's not logical that 50 can meet in Chepstow but only 30 a few miles away in Lydney.
As you know I go camping a lot. As recently as last week I could go to any campsite in England and use the communal toilets. In Wales it was not allowed. If you didn't have on board facilities in you camper van, tough luck. These sorts of differences have a big impact on people but defy logic when it comes to protecting the UK from Covid.
More confusing I could go to a pub in Wales and use the communal toilets, same as England....but not at campsites.
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