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It isn't cobblers Sludge, you just need to look at the facts
In 1929 there were 250k jobs in the Welsh mining industry, in 1979 there were 20k. At that rate the mines were closing by 1984. more mines were closed under Labour in the 1960s than at any other time. Under Thatcher 3% of South Wales worked in the mines and lost their jobs when that industry closed, with many retraining.
Under Labour, in 2008 around 6% of the Welsh workforce lost their jobs as a result of the financial crash. I don't recall any training.
Wales has faired no better or worse under Thatcher in terms of job losses. What did happen was Thatcher smashed the unions and many people just have not been able to get over it, perpetuating a myth that just does not hold up. What we have seen with the current Tory government is investment in Wales, with electrification of the South Wales mainline. That never happened under Labour.
I agree about the voters in Surrey, politicians need to earn your vote, and when you have solid blue or red areas, it breeds contempt for the wider electorate. I'm not sure of your point that you are trying to make
anyone who blindly follows a party or ideology is part of the problem.
The tories and Thatcher finished off the mining industry at a time of high unemployment and seemed to enjoy doing it. People out of work and with no jobs to go to.
Drive through plenty of old valley villages now and you can still see large old abandoned pubs which would have had trade after men finished work.
High youth unemployment as youngsters had no work to go to. Result crime drugs.
The highest percentage of mine closures i believe was by some distance Thatchers.
Retraining under Thatcher?
You are having a laugh , high unemployment was a price worth paying according to the tories
The closure of industry in South Wales meant many just turned to the building trade doing odd jobs or signed on
They parked loads of people on the sick , massaging the true out of work figures
The attack on the miners was an ideological one , she wanted to split and weaken the powerful NUM
A lot of strange people admire Thatcher for taking on the unions but these were proud working men . It was cheaper to keep uneconomic mines open and provide employment than stick everybody on the dole but she was driven by her neo con libertarian nonsense .
The crash of 2008 when Labour were in power was a worldwide crash . The Pandemic under the tories was a worldwide pandemic . Labours spending plans were backed by the tories who said they would spend more . When the election came they changed colours .
She and they are an untrustworthy bunch
I just wish we had a decent left of centre opposition to kick their arses
Thatchers decision to close the mines and in affect, most other industries attached to it, was ideological. What she was scared of was an organised and powerful labour force. Workers having the ability to defend themselves and protect their families and communities. It was all part of a sustained attack on workers. The beginning of the creation of the underclass, third and fourth generation on benefits and all of the social, health and educational issues that go with it.
I know that we've gone over this, but a centrist party would not defend workers and their families.
yes, retaining was offered to all miners, some took it up, others did not.
you're a victim of the PR machine sludge. The long term trend indicated the mines would all be closed by 1984. The single biggest government decision to impact the South Wales mines was not Thatcher in the 80s but the government switching the Royal Navy to Diesel in the 1920s.
not sure of the point you're trying to make
are you saying the miners and others weren't sick and were in fact benefits cheats? I thought you said earlier in the thread benefits cheats don't really exist.
I don't see a problem with this. The unions wanted to dictate government policy. We vote for our politicians to decide policy. Unions should stick to the workplace.
it was not cheaper Sludge, the world had moved on from coal. and why on earth would you want to propagate and maintain such a dangerous and unhealthy industry? miners may have formed strong communities, but it was at great expense to their health. Rather than seeing this as a political football ,we should be grateful that few of us now have to work in such conditions to put food on the table.
it was not a worldwide crash, unless Australia, Canada, Russia, Japan, Norway et al all inhabit a different world to you
all politicians are sludge, you are just too blinded by dogma to see it.
we do, the libdems.
I know multiple people who during the miner's strike had to burn furniture and books to keep their homes warm.
nobody had to do that after the global financial crisis in 2008
The percentage decline in jobs under Thatcher was actually double that under Wilson,(UK wide) Yes, Labour closed mines, no argument from me. Miners knew that the pits would close at some point, there was never an unlimited supply of coal. The reason why Thatcher is despised so much is because this happened at a time of very high unemployment, miners wives were refused hardship payments to feed their kids. It was ideological, the attack was wholesale and not about economics, but an attack on organised Labour. She humiliated these communities, wanted them defeated and on their knees, without real alternative in terms of jobs, re training and opportunity. That's why she is despised, it was cruel and vicious, and we are seeing the effects of what she did up until this day.
the prevailing view in the conservative party at the time (80s) was that once the jobs were all gone people would leave the area and move to London or other cities where there were jobs.
they also considered doing the same to the city of Liverpool.
literally zero concept that people would want to stay where they had grown up and where their family all were.
Sludge. The judges scorecards have Feedy well ahead. You’re gonna have to go for a late stoppage!
You’re looking at a topic too broadly.
AI and automation will displace more jobs than the coal pit closures ever did but it’s governments task to replace those jobs in the areas it displaces.
For the tories in that era the areas most displaced were neglected and were still paying the price now.
Our topography doesn’t help us but you can’t hide that we were the casualty chosen in order to protect the UK as a whole