Palestine Israel

[Eric Cartman]

...Oscar Wilde rapier like wit and devastating repartee

Something like that

[Feedback]

Something like that

[Helen Wiggy]

I've read through this thread from start to finish and there have been some interesting points raised, as well as some examples of ignorance and trying to win an argument for the sake of it without being properly acquainted with all the facts which is understandable to do as Israel/Palestine is an extremely complicated space. I have spent a lot of time in Israel, West Bank and Gaza, working with NGOs and, during my time there, I have met with Hamas generals, ordinary Gazans, many of whom hate Hamas but are in no position to oppose them, I've met West Bank Palestinian leaders and citizens, Israeli settlers (the vast majority of whom, to pick up a point made earlier, have American accents and no geographical connection to the land). I have also met many Israeli Jews who are completely opposed to the state of Israel, including ultra-orthodox Jews who believe that the Kingdom of Israel should only exist after the coming of the Mashiach, when the Law would be that of the Torah, not the secular law of post 1948 governments. There are also many Israelis who have refused to do military service. They usually get, I think, about 8 months in prison and find it extremely difficult to find employment within Israel thereafter. There are also those people who did serve in the IDF but then joined organisations like Breaking the Silence to expose some of the things that go on a daily and institutional level.

I notice that one poster has resorted to accusations of 'jew-bashing' although he, ironically, is the only person who has used an antisemitic word in the whole thread. It is important not to conflate anti-zionism with antisemitism and if he wants to read some critiques of Israel, he could start by reading Israeli Jews, Ilan Pappe and Gideon Levy, and American Jews, Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky, among many other Jewish writers and academics.

[jon1959]

I've read through this thread from start to finish and there have been some interesting points raised, as well as some examples of ignorance and trying to win an argument for the sake of it without being properly acquainted with all the facts which is understandable to do as Israel/Palestine is an extremely complicated space. I have spent a lot of time in Israel, West Bank and Gaza, working with NGOs and, during my time there, I have met with Hamas generals, ordinary Gazans, many of whom hate Hamas but are in no position to oppose them, I've met West Bank Palestinian leaders and citizens, Israeli settlers (the vast majority of whom, to pick up a point made earlier, have American accents and no geographical connection to the land). I have also met many Israeli Jews who are completely opposed to the state of Israel, including ultra-orthodox Jews who believe that the Kingdom of Israel should only exist after the coming of the Mashiach, when the Law would be that of the Torah, not the secular law of post 1948 governments. There are also many Israelis who have refused to do military service. They usually get, I think, about 8 months in prison and find it extremely difficult to find employment within Israel thereafter. There are also those people who did serve in the IDF but then joined organisations like Breaking the Silence to expose some of the things that go on a daily and institutional level.

I notice that one poster has resorted to accusations of 'jew-bashing' although he, ironically, is the only person who has used an antisemitic word in the whole thread. It is important not to conflate anti-zionism with antisemitism and if he wants to read some critiques of Israel, he could start by reading Israeli Jews, Ilan Pappe and Gideon Levy, and American Jews, Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky, among many other Jewish writers and academics.

Excellent post. Thanks.

[trampie09]

I've read through this thread from start to finish and there have been some interesting points raised, as well as some examples of ignorance and trying to win an argument for the sake of it without being properly acquainted with all the facts which is understandable to do as Israel/Palestine is an extremely complicated space. I have spent a lot of time in Israel, West Bank and Gaza, working with NGOs and, during my time there, I have met with Hamas generals, ordinary Gazans, many of whom hate Hamas but are in no position to oppose them, I've met West Bank Palestinian leaders and citizens, Israeli settlers (the vast majority of whom, to pick up a point made earlier, have American accents and no geographical connection to the land). I have also met many Israeli Jews who are completely opposed to the state of Israel, including ultra-orthodox Jews who believe that the Kingdom of Israel should only exist after the coming of the Mashiach, when the Law would be that of the Torah, not the secular law of post 1948 governments. There are also many Israelis who have refused to do military service. They usually get, I think, about 8 months in prison and find it extremely difficult to find employment within Israel thereafter. There are also those people who did serve in the IDF but then joined organisations like Breaking the Silence to expose some of the things that go on a daily and institutional level.

I notice that one poster has resorted to accusations of 'jew-bashing' although he, ironically, is the only person who has used an antisemitic word in the whole thread. It is important not to conflate anti-zionism with antisemitism and if he wants to read some critiques of Israel, he could start by reading Israeli Jews, Ilan Pappe and Gideon Levy, and American Jews, Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky, among many other Jewish writers and academics.

Top post

[trampie09]

vivien burke #🌹🥀🇮🇪🇬🇧 🇵🇸🇪🇺 (@vivienburke) Tweeted: https://t.co/tkShblJTCA well done Ireland 🇮🇪 👏👏 https://twitter.com/vivienburke/stat...766363652?s=20

[xsnaggle]

I'm not sure that the reason the Muslims hate the Jews is actually explained in the bible.

[jon1959]

I'm not sure that the reason the Muslims hate the Jews is actually explained in the bible.

‘The Muslims’ hate ‘the Jews’?

At least Feedback won’t feel so alone!

[xsnaggle]

‘The Muslims’

At least Feedback won’t feel so alone!

Perhaps insensitively put but I was trying to respond to sludge's comment about it being caused by the bible.

[life on mars]

Perhaps insensitively put but I was trying to respond to sludge's comment about it being caused by the bible.

All we do know there is an in bred instructional hatred of Jews that has gone on for centuries.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti..._New_Testament

[cyril evans awaydays]

All we do know there is an in bred instructional hatred of Jews that has gone on for centuries.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti..._New_Testament

You are the same guy constantly moralising on anti-semitism that commented on a massacre in a New York synagogue that this type of thing has been going on since Billy the Kid, right?

[Feedback]

‘The Muslims’ hate ‘the Jews’?

At least Feedback won’t feel so alone!

What?

[Feedback]

I've read through this thread from start to finish and there have been some interesting points raised, as well as some examples of ignorance and trying to win an argument for the sake of it without being properly acquainted with all the facts which is understandable to do as Israel/Palestine is an extremely complicated space. I have spent a lot of time in Israel, West Bank and Gaza, working with NGOs and, during my time there, I have met with Hamas generals, ordinary Gazans, many of whom hate Hamas but are in no position to oppose them, I've met West Bank Palestinian leaders and citizens, Israeli settlers (the vast majority of whom, to pick up a point made earlier, have American accents and no geographical connection to the land). I have also met many Israeli Jews who are completely opposed to the state of Israel, including ultra-orthodox Jews who believe that the Kingdom of Israel should only exist after the coming of the Mashiach, when the Law would be that of the Torah, not the secular law of post 1948 governments. There are also many Israelis who have refused to do military service. They usually get, I think, about 8 months in prison and find it extremely difficult to find employment within Israel thereafter. There are also those people who did serve in the IDF but then joined organisations like Breaking the Silence to expose some of the things that go on a daily and institutional level.

I notice that one poster has resorted to accusations of 'jew-bashing' although he, ironically, is the only person who has used an antisemitic word in the whole thread. It is important not to conflate anti-zionism with antisemitism and if he wants to read some critiques of Israel, he could start by reading Israeli Jews, Ilan Pappe and Gideon Levy, and American Jews, Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky, among many other Jewish writers and academics.

You missed the sarcasm in my post.

[cyril evans awaydays]

You missed the sarcasm in my post.

Why do you think his well thought out post was aimed at you?

[life on mars]

You missed the sarcasm in my post.

To be fair Helen has been involved in some serious stuff

[life on mars]

Why do you think his well thought out post was aimed at you?

Why is Helen a he

[Feedback]

Why is Helen a he

You can't assume anyone's gender these days

[life on mars]

You can't assume anyone's gender these days

Oooops .

[cyril evans awaydays]

You can't assume anyone's gender these days

Absolutely right and apologies to Helen, Why do you think her well thought out post was aimed at you?

[Feedback]

Absolutely right and apologies to Helen, Why do you think her well thought out post was aimed at you?

You're still assuming their gender.

[cyril evans awaydays]

You're still assuming their gender.

Not really, I looked at her posting history. Why do you think her well thought out post was aimed at you?

[Feedback]

Not really, I looked at her posting history. Why do you think her well thought out post was aimed at you?

What makes you think I do?

[cyril evans awaydays]

What makes you think I do?

Damn, missed the sarcasm in your post!

[xsnaggle]

‘The Muslims’ hate ‘the Jews’?

At least Feedback won’t feel so alone!

Jon, when I originally answered this post I did so genuinely, but after re-reading it and in the light of other posts it occurred to me that you were implying/suggesting that I am Islamiphobic
I cam promise you that nothing could be further from the truth. In fact if you knew me you'd know that the mere idea is ridiculous.

[Eric Cartman]

You missed the sarcasm in my post.

The final stage, I call 'the smarmy retreat'.