Cardiff City's Latest Accounts: Trust Chair Gives His Analysis.

[the other bob wilson]

Swiss Ramble's take on City's latest accounts;-

https://mobile.twitter.com/SwissRamb...47425607991298

[Rjk]

Swiss Ramble's take on City's latest accounts;-

https://mobile.twitter.com/SwissRamb...47425607991298

Thanks, I always like the additional context he gives vs the other clubs in the league, it at least makes me feel like I understand what's going on.

A couple of things stood out to me:

1 - how reliant we are on Vincent Tan
2 - how most championship clubs seem to lose a lot of money
3 - the money from the premier league and parachute payments has been largely squandered, and things will be tight next season.

4 - we would have broken even this season if it wasn't for covid
5 - how little money we have made over the years from player sales

[jon1959]

Swiss Ramble's take on City's latest accounts;-

https://mobile.twitter.com/SwissRamb...47425607991298

Always interesting commentary. The context comments are most useful to me:

Although #CardiffCity £12m loss is clearly not great, it was around mid-table in the Championship with many clubs reporting much larger losses in 2019/20, including Stoke City £88m, #LUFC £62m (large promotion bonus), Reading £42m, #Boro £36m and WBA £23m.

It is also worth noting that some clubs’ figures have been boosted by the sale of stadiums, especially #DCFC £40m and #SWFC £38m, so their underlying profitability was even worse than reported.

[The Hooded Claw]

It’s interesting that directors’ remuneration rose 34% at a time when the other salary costs were reducing by a similar percentage.

[Rjk]

It’s interesting that directors’ remuneration rose 34% at a time when the other salary costs were reducing by a similar percentage.

yes and the two companies we paid a lot of money to that dalman has interests in - what's that about?

we seem to have done some decent work in trimming the wage bill already, with more to follow.
all things considered we seem fairly middle of the road championship club.

however, considering that next season will be the first since 2013/14 that we won't be recieving any additional money from the premier League we should probably be in a more enviable position.
that's 8 seasons of an unfair advantage over other clubs with which to build up the club, and we've basically wasted it all.

the club are now starting to make the right sounds about bringing through youth and identifying players who could be sold at a profit, but it's going to be a lot more difficult without the premier League money. better late than never I suppose.
the main problem for me remains that we seem to have been far too reliant on the manager for transfer policy etc

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

yes and the two companies we paid a lot of money to that dalman has interests in - what's that about?

Didn't he hold a meeting with fans last year when he said we need to tighten our belts?

[Rjk]

Didn't he hold a meeting with fans last year when he said we need to tighten our belts?

Well in fairness we do need to, to the tune of £30 million +
difficult to speculate too much on the payments without knowing what they're for

[Ninian1962]

Always interesting commentary. The context comments are most useful to me:

Although #CardiffCity £12m loss is clearly not great, it was around mid-table in the Championship with many clubs reporting much larger losses in 2019/20, including Stoke City £88m, #LUFC £62m (large promotion bonus), Reading £42m, #Boro £36m and WBA £23m.

It is also worth noting that some clubs’ figures have been boosted by the sale of stadiums, especially #DCFC £40m and #SWFC £38m, so their underlying profitability was even worse than reported.

Swiss Ramble always does a very good analysis and comparison with other clubs in the Championship for the season being reviewed.

As you say the profits for Derby and Sheffield Wednesday are artificially boosted by a (dubious?) sale of their stadia.

Of the remaining few clubs that reported a profit , Swansea benefitted from the fact that their accounts year end is July. Therefore they had the complete season`s income in their turnover figure while as we lost about £11m from our financial year end finishing before the season finished - which will benefit us in financial year 2020/21 though.
I haven`t looked at what year end the other clubs reporting slightly better figures than us have but it may be that some of them benefit in the same way as Swansea.

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

Well in fairness we do need to, to the tune of £30 million +
difficult to speculate too much on the payments without knowing what they're for

Fair point, the payments might have been due, same with the pay rise for the directors - it just doesn't look good amidst everything else.

[dml1954]

Fair point, the payments might have been due, same with the pay rise for the directors - it just doesn't look good amidst everything else.

Why doesn't it look good ? What the directors get in remuneration or what the owner does with his money is absolutely nothing to do with us. Its all in the accounts anyway and not being hidden, so why is the automatic response always that something fishy is going on.

[The Hooded Claw]

Why doesn't it look good ? What the directors get in remuneration or what the owner does with his money is absolutely nothing to do with us. Its all in the accounts anyway and not being hidden, so why is the automatic response always that something fishy is going on.

No one is saying it’s fishy. It just seems odd (inappropriate, perhaps) that the directors have been given a pay rise at a time when other staff are having their pay reduced.

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

Why doesn't it look good ? What the directors get in remuneration or what the owner does with his money is absolutely nothing to do with us. Its all in the accounts anyway and not being hidden, so why is the automatic response always that something fishy is going on.

I didn't say anything fishy was going on. The message from the club is that, understandably, costs have to be cut (not just from here on in; this was mentioned in a meeting early last year) but then the directors' are given more than usual. As has been said, this might be for monies owed/earned but we don't know.

[cardiff55]

Why doesn't it look good ? What the directors get in remuneration or what the owner does with his money is absolutely nothing to do with us. Its all in the accounts anyway and not being hidden, so why is the automatic response always that something fishy is going on.

I totally agree. If owned the club, and subsidised it like Mr Tan, I could do what i wanted. And I could pay directors whatever I liked, and employees too. The players are employees too and there has been little criticism of what we paid in fees and wages for the like of Madine etc. All the players are paid well, maybe with the exception of the youngsters and are the highest drain on finances.

The difference between us and other clubs is that, I believe, Vincent Tan is an honourable man who will not leave the club in the lurch. It's in his interest to keep the club stable so that when he does sell up he gets a lot of his money back. Some clubs have owners who do not put any money in (Swansea?), and have worked their way around FFP rules by selling their grounds to the owner (Derby & Sheff W), which seems a dangerous approach.

Compare our club's owner with another type of owner, let's call him Mr H, who gave the impression of investment , but it was really all loans from himself, which were then sold to another company (if this is right?), who he stated were not him. And then took the club to court, the club he says he loved, and then settled on a deal for the debt. And it was found out to be him all along, and then sues the club (he loves) again for millions. Yet he has not been seen near the club (which he purports to love ) for about a decade or more!!!

Owner one keeps getting vilified whilst owner 2 (on another board) is hero worshipped.

I know which one I'd want at our club.

[The Lone Gunman]

The players are employees too and there has been little criticism of what we paid in fees and wages for the likes of Madine etc.

Are you taking the piss?

[B. Oddie]

I get some people don't like Tan but some just keep on slating him for the things he's done and everything the club does.
These fans never stood up to a certain previous owner and never spoke out about him whilst he ran the club like a circus.
I will always speak up against these hypocrites when they bash the club at every opportunity.

I agree with that, TBH.

I'm still annoyed at the Red saga (I refused to go to any matches) but no where near as I was a few seasons ago. How/why the bloke has stuck with the club is beyond me.

Someone on here said last week that Tan wants to make a success of the club out of Asian pride/saving face. That may well be the case but the fact remains that he has stuck with the club and I've got a fair better opinion of him.

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

I totally agree. If owned the club, and subsidised it like Mr Tan, I could do what i wanted. And I could pay directors whatever I liked, and employees too. The players are employees too and there has been little criticism of what we paid in fees and wages for the like of Madine etc. All the players are paid well, maybe with the exception of the youngsters and are the highest drain on finances.

The difference between us and other clubs is that, I believe, Vincent Tan is an honourable man who will not leave the club in the lurch. It's in his interest to keep the club stable so that when he does sell up he gets a lot of his money back. Some clubs have owners who do not put any money in (Swansea?), and have worked their way around FFP rules by selling their grounds to the owner (Derby & Sheff W), which seems a dangerous approach.

Compare our club's owner with another type of owner, let's call him Mr H, who gave the impression of investment , but it was really all loans from himself, which were then sold to another company (if this is right?), who he stated were not him. And then took the club to court, the club he says he loved, and then settled on a deal for the debt. And it was found out to be him all along, and then sues the club (he loves) again for millions. Yet he has not been seen near the club (which he purports to love ) for about a decade or more!!!

Owner one keeps getting vilified whilst owner 2 (on another board) is hero worshipped.

I know which one I'd want at our club.

So what you're saying is next time I notice what I think is a contradictory element in the message coming from the chairman and the monies received by the directors, I should remember that Vincent Tan is not Sam Hammam and this will appease any discrepancy?

[cardiff55]

So what you're saying is next time I notice what I think is a contradictory element in the message coming from the chairman and the monies received by the directors, I should remember that Vincent Tan is not Sam Hammam and this will appease any discrepancy?

What I was trying to point out is than Tan owns the club and can pretty much do what he wants, and pay as much as he wants to who he wants. He is better than Hammam. Obviously what he does can be questioned but none of us can do anything about it. I think, like Hammam, his tenure will be evaluated fully once he has gone.

[cardiff55]

Are you taking the piss?

Little criticism of Tan. The blame seems to have always been laid at the door of Warnock for Madine and others. But it was the 'transfer committee' who sanctioned the spending. Tan just agreed o what had been proposed, trusting in Dalman, Choo and the manager.

But there again I may taking the piss!

[xsnaggle]

It’s interesting that directors’ remuneration rose 34% at a time when the other salary costs were reducing by a similar percentage.

In large Companies don't the directors remunerations reflect the previous years business or even the year before that?
I recall many years ago talking to a man called Sam Toy who was the MD of Ford UK. Ford were then currently making loss but he had just got a huge pay rise of something like 60% as I recall, because it was based on a previous year when ford had made a huge profit.

[The Hooded Claw]

In large Companies don't the directors remunerations reflect the previous years business or even the year before that?
I recall many years ago talking to a man called Sam Toy who was the MD of Ford UK. Ford were then currently making loss but he had just got a huge pay rise of something like 60% as I recall, because it was based on a previous year when ford had made a huge profit.

Not necessarily. The accounts for the year in question should show the directors fees that relate to that year, regardless of when they are actually paid.
Profit & Loss Accounts are prepared on an accruals basis, not a cash basis.