Working from Home.

[Optimistic Nick]

I think we'll look at a hybrid model which will just about keep everyone happy.

But if they want people enthusiastic about returning to the office they should consider why people don't want to. For those using the road system I'm sure they're sick of endless traffic and for those using public transport I'm sure they're sick of the cost, the crowding and randomness of when the service will turn up.

Lot's of good reasons to go back in but there's certainly things that can be improved upon.

I agree. - but who is "they" here? Govt? I think employers themselves need to think too. An office now has to provide more than just a work space. It has to offer something extra- collaboration being the obvious one. It costs me about £30 and 2 hours of my day every time I go in, so I only do it about twice a week and I choose those days carefully.

[lardy]

It's not necessary that binary in deciding whether to go into work or to work from home: many people now appreciate the advantage of a hybrid system whereby we can have a mixture of both options.

It's nice to see work colleagues regularly, though.

[jon1959]

It's nice to see work colleagues regularly, though.

Work colleagues, you say? Yes, in my experience work colleagues are the best sort of colleagues. I'm sure I read TBG saying something very similar about work colleagues in the past. He always has good things to say about his former work colleagues.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

It's nice to see work colleagues regularly, though.

I would prefer to stay home and see more of my family relatives

[A Quiet Monkfish]

The same highstreet where huge companies like Debenhams swallowed up independent retailers you mean? The same sector that is now crying foul because of retail evolution and bigger sharks like Amazon, you mean? The same sector that didn't adapt to on-line retail in time, you mean?

The highstreet is failing because it is expensive, unnecessary, and outdated.

Re. your 3 replies to my post, I think you're completely missing the point. Anyway. Change doesn't bother me, I've lived a full life so far, and apart from the occasional daily 15 minutes on CCMB etc., I've done things that nowadays admittedly seem 'outdated'. Like shopping for food and clothing etc., in real places, meeting real people. Talking to real people face-to-face, seeing what they look like below their shoulders. Meeting work. business colleagues, nights out, actually going out each and every day having different experiences, the same with the Missus, swapping notes. Of course, I could now do all that looking a screen no bigger than a fag packet, without leaving my bedroom - maybe my bed.
You post rude aggressive replies to a perfectly reasonable opinion, and assume that you are correct, better able to judge, and I am some sort of dinosaur. The irony is lost on you, no doubt.

[Allez Allez Allez]

Re. your 3 replies to my post, I think you're completely missing the point. Anyway. Change doesn't bother me, I've lived a full life so far, and apart from the occasional daily 15 minutes on CCMB etc., I've done things that nowadays admittedly seem 'outdated'. Like shopping for food and clothing etc., in real places, meeting real people. Talking to real people face-to-face, seeing what they look like below their shoulders. Meeting work. business colleagues, nights out, actually going out each and every day having different experiences, the same with the Missus, swapping notes. Of course, I could now do all that looking a screen no bigger than a fag packet, without leaving my bedroom - maybe my bed.
You post rude aggressive replies to a perfectly reasonable opinion, and assume that you are correct, better able to judge, and I am some sort of dinosaur. The irony is lost on you, no doubt.

I only replied twice and you were the one labelling productive people like myself slackers for being able to work from home without adult supervision. Something you obviously require.
Yes, everyone who works from home does nothing but stay at home all day. We crave a life of meeting old Mrs. Muggles in the pasta aisle in Tesco.

My opinion is perfectly reasonable, clogging roads up with cars is so last year.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

There's a difference with being 'somewhere' and being available within certain stipulated hours and completing tasks that one's job entails, of course.

[Des Parrot]

With that in mind, I'd say there's still ground to be made for a lot of companies, but the flexibility of remote/hybrid working is a big thing for younger generations and I expect it to now be the norm going forward. Companies will have to adapt to what people want and change their attitudes, or risk losing out on talent, especially in sectors like tech and IT.

This is spot on, if you don’t offer it then you lose out on potential staff, we’re currently recruiting hundreds across the EU and it’s always amongst the first set of questions. We’re letting our Finance, Purchasing, IT people have hybrid contracts

[A Quiet Monkfish]

I only replied twice and you were the one labelling productive people like myself slackers for being able to work from home without adult supervision. Something you obviously require.
Yes, everyone who works from home does nothing but stay at home all day. We crave a life of meeting old Mrs. Muggles in the pasta aisle in Tesco.

My opinion is perfectly reasonable, clogging roads up with cars is so last year.

Eastbourne blue posted 'slackers'. You missed, and still missed completely the point I was making. Others understood and replied accordingly. Excitable little chap ain't you !

[Allez Allez Allez]

Eastbourne blue posted 'slackers'.

And you said

Well, there must be an element of truth in that, however from what little I've gleaned from people who are WFH is that they're 'monitored' on their daily activity - not exactly my idea of fun. The extrapolation from that is my main point, ie, these are jobs that could in many cases be easily moved overseas.

I do wonder what your job is/was. I suspect it wasn't managerial but, if it was, I suspect you were one of those managers that micro-managed everyone and treated them like kids and then felt justified when they were worn down enough to start taking the piss.

You made a supposition that jobs would move abroad because people can do the jobs anywhere. You then backed up your lack of logical thought with a claim that was equally illogical. That if people went from back to the office, somehow these jobs would become protected. These people have been doing these jobs at home for 18 months. Do you really think that people going back to the office (extra real estate costs for the companies) now is going to make it less likely for companies to outsource?

Do you think that companies who have moved production to China, South East Asia and East Europe over the last 10-20 years did so because all the factory workers were working from home.

You are talking out of your arse, an habit it seems you are incapable of kicking. Clueless.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

And you said


I do wonder what your job is/was. I suspect it wasn't managerial but, if it was, I suspect you were one of those managers that micro-managed everyone and treated them like kids and then felt justified when they were worn down enough to start taking the piss.

You made a supposition that jobs would move abroad because people can do the jobs anywhere. You then backed up your lack of logical thought with a claim that was equally illogical. That if people went from back to the office, somehow these jobs would become protected. These people have been doing these jobs at home for 18 months. Do you really think that people going back to the office (extra real estate costs for the companies) now is going to make it less likely for companies to outsource?

Do you think that companies who have moved production to China, South East Asia and East Europe over the last 10-20 years did so because all the factory workers were working from home.

You are talking out of your arse, an habit it seems you are incapable of kicking. Clueless.

You're losing it, son. Calm down and enjoy life..

[delmbox]

You're losing it, son. Calm down and enjoy life..

Usually replying this or "stop taking the board so seriously" means someone's lost the argument

[Dorcus]

Little wonder the UK's productivity is far below some countries. British managers are far more concerned about the hours staff put in rather than their output. If people can meet their targets in as short a time as possible, do we really need snoopers to insist the full quota of hours are completed?

[Tuerto]

Usually replying this or "stop taking the board so seriously" means someone's lost the argument

Stop being so serious, Delm.

[xsnaggle]

Usually replying this or "stop taking the board so seriously" means someone's lost the argument

Oi!! You 'aving a dig sonny? 🤣😀

[delmbox]

Stop being so serious, Delm.

You need to calm down and enjoy life m8

[Allez Allez Allez]

You're losing it, son. Calm down and enjoy life..

I'm perfectly calm, dad, and am enjoying life. I don't need to spend 10-15 hours traveling to work a week, I don't need to spend £50 on fuel every week, I can start work when I like, and finish when I like. I am not constantly monitored (last time I experienced this was actually in an office), I don't get to hear people's boring life/love/health stories.

Your suggestion is that people should throw all this away because one day our jobs will be gone. It's based on nothing but being an old twat, and is probably based on no experience of management at all. I know a few people who can only function by having people telling them what to do every single hour. As a manager, I know who is slacking because it becomes pretty obvious. I don't need to be sat in an office with them to manage them, and they don't need to sit with me to be managed.

Needless to say, you probably wouldn't last very long in any team I managed because you aren't exactly innovative or forward thinking are you?

[Allez Allez Allez]

Little wonder the UK's productivity is far below some countries. British managers are far more concerned about the hours staff put in rather than their output. If people can meet their targets in as short a time as possible, do we really need snoopers to insist the full quota of hours are completed?

When I first started work as a data entry clerk, I used to get my daily work done by 1pm. The result was, I would then have to do the work others hadn't finished because they'd been gossiping, doing quizzes, smoking while I'd been working. After a few weeks of that, I decided to slow my pace down so that I finished and did the same amount of work as everyone else. Had managers sent me home after I finished as a reward, I guarantee the others would have matched my efforts.

[Tuerto]

I'm perfectly calm, dad, and am enjoying life. I don't need to spend 10-15 hours traveling to work a week, I don't need to spend £50 on fuel every week, I can start work when I like, and finish when I like. I am not constantly monitored (last time I experienced this was actually in an office), I don't get to hear people's boring life/love/health stories.

Your suggestion is that people should throw all this away because one day our jobs will be gone. It's based on nothing but being an old twat, and is probably based on no experience of management at all. I know a few people who can only function by having people telling them what to do every single hour. As a manager, I know who is slacking because it becomes pretty obvious. I don't need to be sat in an office with them to manage them, and they don't need to sit with me to be managed.

Needless to say, you probably wouldn't last very long in any team I managed because you aren't exactly innovative or forward thinking are you?

particularly liked the bit about not having to listen to peoples boring bullshit. I work on my own and it's absolute bliss.

[blue matt]

particularly liked the bit about not having to listen to peoples boring bullshit. I work on my own and it's absolute bliss.

fancy not having to listen to people's boring life/love/health stories. but spending time on here, how the blessed live

[xsnaggle]

I'm perfectly calm, dad, and am enjoying life. I don't need to spend 10-15 hours traveling to work a week, I don't need to spend £50 on fuel every week, I can start work when I like, and finish when I like. I am not constantly monitored (last time I experienced this was actually in an office), I don't get to hear people's boring life/love/health stories.

Your suggestion is that people should throw all this away because one day our jobs will be gone. It's based on nothing but being an old twat, and is probably based on no experience of management at all. I know a few people who can only function by having people telling them what to do every single hour. As a manager, I know who is slacking because it becomes pretty obvious. I don't need to be sat in an office with them to manage them, and they don't need to sit with me to be managed.

Needless to say, you probably wouldn't last very long in any team I managed because you aren't exactly innovative or forward thinking are you?

Temper temper. No need to start calling people twat's and such like. You'll give yourself a bad name. lol

[Feedback]

That will be the rule anywhere with a tax dept. The payroll tax and social security issues with allowing a workforce to work where they like can be a nightmare- not to mention the possiblity of the company itself having a corporate tax liability in a country where their employees work. And if you don't spot that liability- in some countries that is a criminal offence, not just a matter of financial penalties.

I can't see why offshoring would be a problem, you pay local taxes - so what, banks have already been doing this for years.

[Allez Allez Allez]

Temper temper. No need to start calling people twat's and such like. You'll give yourself a bad name. lol

I was perfectly calm until I saw your apostrophe.

In all seriousness though, about 20% of my work life has been spent trying to drag people like the OP forward. All these "We can't, we shouldn't" excuses are helping to achieve one thing. Lower productivity. Change is good. Less time wasted on roads is good. Less opportunities for people to slack by

1) Chatting at the desk
2) Chatting at the coffee machine
3) Chatting about what time to go for lunch
4) Chatting after coming back from lunch
5) Popping out for a fag to have a chat
6) Christmas/Easter/Valentine quizzes
7) The entire office congregating because someone they never spoke to is leaving, wasting another half an hour for each person.
8) The entire office congregating because someone they never spoke to has a birthday, wasting another half hour for each person.
9) Groups of people gathering photos of someone who has a birthday coming up, then spending an afternoon putting them in strategically hilarious places like the bogs
10) People surfing the net pretending to work
11) Calling meetings of 1 hour where the first 10 minutes is spent waiting for others to arrive, the next 20 minutes are spent laughing and joking between people who despise each other, 10 minutes talking about work, 15 minutes talking about the next meeting, and then the leader of the meeting saying "Good, we finished early, you all get 5 minutes back in your day".

is good.

The office is nothing more than a distraction. It is noisy, it is full of interruptions, it is full of banality, it is full of people who are only capable of forming relationships with people they work with, it is full of excuses to not do any work which results in lots of last minute rushes. That the OP thinks people should have to endure 12-15 hours of travel a week just to waste time is hilarious. Personally, I was getting more done and spending less time working once I went to wfh. It also means I can apply for jobs in London with higher wages, without having to endure the joke that is the London property market.

But, yes, none of this ever happens and people working from home is the cause of lower productivity.

[xsnaggle]

The office is nothing more than a distraction. It is noisy, it is full of interruptions, it is full of banality, it is full of people who are only capable of forming relationships with people they work with, it is full of excuses to not do any work which results in lots of last minute rushes. That the OP thinks people should have to endure 12-15 hours of travel a week just to waste time is hilarious. Personally, I was getting more done and spending less time working once I went to wfh. It also means I can apply for jobs in London with higher wages, without having to endure the joke that is the London property market.

Parkinson's first law of work.... "Work expands to fill the time available to do it".

That's why everything is only finished at the last minute.

[Tuerto]

I was perfectly calm until I saw your apostrophe.

In all seriousness though, about 20% of my work life has been spent trying to drag people like the OP forward. All these "We can't, we shouldn't" excuses are helping to achieve one thing. Lower productivity. Change is good. Less time wasted on roads is good. Less opportunities for people to slack by

1) Chatting at the desk
2) Chatting at the coffee machine
3) Chatting about what time to go for lunch
4) Chatting after coming back from lunch
5) Popping out for a fag to have a chat
6) Christmas/Easter/Valentine quizzes
7) The entire office congregating because someone they never spoke to is leaving, wasting another half an hour for each person.
8) The entire office congregating because someone they never spoke to has a birthday, wasting another half hour for each person.
9) Groups of people gathering photos of someone who has a birthday coming up, then spending an afternoon putting them in strategically hilarious places like the bogs
10) People surfing the net pretending to work
11) Calling meetings of 1 hour where the first 10 minutes is spent waiting for others to arrive, the next 20 minutes are spent laughing and joking between people who despise each other, 10 minutes talking about work, 15 minutes talking about the next meeting, and then the leader of the meeting saying "Good, we finished early, you all get 5 minutes back in your day".

is good.

The office is nothing more than a distraction. It is noisy, it is full of interruptions, it is full of banality, it is full of people who are only capable of forming relationships with people they work with, it is full of excuses to not do any work which results in lots of last minute rushes. That the OP thinks people should have to endure 12-15 hours of travel a week just to waste time is hilarious. Personally, I was getting more done and spending less time working once I went to wfh. It also means I can apply for jobs in London with higher wages, without having to endure the joke that is the London property market.

But, yes, none of this ever happens and people working from home is the cause of lower productivity.

Brilliant!