FT: ENGLAND 1 - 1 ITALY. Italy win on pens

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Meh. I actually quite liked that. It was obviously tongue in cheek but still good to see something other than the boring " there are some good teams left in it" stuff. I don't see it as arrogance really, just a pundit trying to do something different.

England were really, really good in this competition. They didn't quite deserve to win it, Italy did. But the best two teams made it to the final which is a nice change; and this England team have a long way to go yet. Luke Shaw was absolutely phenominal for the entire tournament and Kane looked like a world class player for a lot of the game today.


I am as relieved as the next man that they didn't actually win it but I have a lot of sypmpathhy for them too. I suspect they will be there or thereabouts in Qatar.

Kane is a con artist always looking for a free kick , he's a cheat

[the other bob wilson]

All this talk of England's approach, isn't the truth that Italy won because they had slightly better players and were the slightly better side?

Right from their first game when they demolished a much fancied Turkish team, Italy have looked the best team in the tournament to me with the only doubt being whether they could maintain what was a high intensity pressing game. The answer to that question was kind of I suppose, because they were not as physically dynamic as the tournament came into its closing stages, but they had the ability to cope with that and more.

I'm glad England lost, but the time when us non English brits will have to put up with them winning a tournament could well be not too far away, although I do wonder if Rice and Phillips have it in them to be influential players at the very top level of the international game.

Feel very sorry for those who missed penalties with the good thing being I suppose that no single player has to carry the can like Southgate had to in 1996. I wouldn't be too critical of those who didn't want to be among the first five penalty takers because the first requirement surely is that the taker has to feel fairly comfortable about being under such intense pressure, but having the teenager Saka down as fifth on the list does look odd given that it is so often the most crucial penalty of the lot.

[goats]

Don’t think Southgate should have waited until the end if extra time to bring rashfird and sancho on, Italy’s old centre backs were tiring and they were under no pressure second half, in fact Italy were all over them. He changed nothing until it was too late. Sterling was quiet and saka not great…..A missed opportunity

[lardy]

All this talk of England's approach, isn't the truth that Italy won because they had slightly better players and were the slightly better side?

I think it's a bit of both. Italy deservedly took the trophy and were the better side. But a better tactician than Southgate would have reacted after the first 10 minutes of the second half, when it was becoming obvious that Mancini was pinning his wingbacks.

England's advantage was speedy, tricky players (they have them coming out of their ears in this squad) against an Italian defence that was experienced but not young. The centreback partnership had an average age of 35. But although the game was a draw, the Italians had twice as much possession and took three times as many shots.

In the group stage, England seemed to finish every game with only two or three shots on target, but did a lot better in the quarters and semis. Overall, and in the final, I think it's fair to say that England didn't make the most of the area where they were strongest.

[lardy]

Kane did more work in midfield than as a striker. All the talk of wing backs and getting ball in the box, did I hear correctly that Kane didn't have a single touch of the ball in Italy's box? Cant be right surely?

Which is similar to what he did at Spurs for most of the season. But his partnership with Son was brilliant, particularly in the first two thirds of the season. He wasn't bringing Mount, Saka or Sterling into the game this time. I don't think it was a world class performance.

[Bald Barry Bastad]

Feel sorry for Southgate, the decent players in the England squad ......which is the ones who don't dive and the decent , ordinary England fans especially young kids who were probably in tears .

But shearer , that bloody guy Mowbray, the press and the hangers on can all naff right off

Kane , Grealish etc are diving ponces always trying to kid the ref, as is sterling

He was the reason they lost. Southgate negativity got what it deserved.

[Bald Barry Bastad]

All this talk of England's approach, isn't the truth that Italy won because they had slightly better players and were the slightly better side?

Right from their first game when they demolished a much fancied Turkish team, Italy have looked the best team in the tournament to me with the only doubt being whether they could maintain what was a high intensity pressing game. The answer to that question was kind of I suppose, because they were not as physically dynamic as the tournament came into its closing stages, but they had the ability to cope with that and more.

I'm glad England lost, but the time when us non English brits will have to put up with them winning a tournament could well be not too far away, although I do wonder if Rice and Phillips have it in them to be influential players at the very top level of the international game.

Feel very sorry for those who missed penalties with the good thing being I suppose that no single player has to carry the can like Southgate had to in 1996. I wouldn't be too critical of those who didn't want to be among the first five penalty takers because the first requirement surely is that the taker has to feel fairly comfortable about being under such intense pressure, but having the teenager Saka down as fifth on the list does look odd given that it is so often the most crucial penalty of the lot.

No the truth was Southgate was the difference. Not good enough and tactically inept. He cost England this game.

[Baloo]

I think it's a bit of both. Italy deservedly took the trophy and were the better side. But a better tactician than Southgate would have reacted after the first 10 minutes of the second half, when it was becoming obvious that Mancini was pinning his wingbacks.

England's advantage was speedy, tricky players (they have them coming out of their ears in this squad) against an Italian defence that was experienced but not young. The centreback partnership had an average age of 35. But although the game was a draw, the Italians had twice as much possession and took three times as many shots.

In the group stage, England seemed to finish every game with only two or three shots on target, but did a lot better in the quarters and semis. Overall, and in the final, I think it's fair to say that England didn't make the most of the area where they were strongest.

Particularly bearing in mind said centre-backs were also both on yellow cards for a large part of the game.

[Des Parrot]

He was the reason they lost. Southgate negativity got what it deserved.

I agree with this. They had the right talent, skills & opportunities but never used them.

[bobh]

Think Rashford is lucky to be lumped in with sancho and saka. Rashford is an experienced penalty taker who seemed to decide to treat todays penalty as a joke. Feel for Sancho and Saka, never should have been put into that position by Southgate, the pair of them showed real balls and will hopefully have an arm put round them.

Yes, I too feel sorry for the young lads who were brave enough to take the penalties. However you could see Rashford's miss coming with that ridiculous sort of shimmy. England had everything going for them - a home game at Wembley with 60,000 fans against Italy's 6,000. Also this was the first really good team they have encountered in the whole tournament. Imagine the situation if the game had been in Rome!

Sums it up perfectly.

Rashfords ridiculous run-up (stroll-up?) put the players after him under enormous pressure.
Hero to Zero.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Sums it up perfectly.

Rashfords ridiculous run-up (stroll-up?) put the players after him under enormous pressure.
Hero to Zero.

To be fair rashford hit the post , it was a good penalty that beat the keeper
4 inches the other way ......

[lardy]

To be fair rashford hit the post , it was a good penalty that beat the keeper
4 inches the other way ......

If you do that, you have to hit the target. That's the absolute minimum.

[Trigger]

To be fair rashford hit the post , it was a good penalty that beat the keeper
4 inches the other way ......

Yea but 4 inches to the left and he would have missed even further.

[WJ99mobile]

Kane is a con artist always looking for a free kick , he's a cheat

He's not a lot different to Kieffer in that regard

It's good when he's playing for you

[WJ99mobile]

Ref needed some praise yesterday letting game flow and no nonsense on going down easily

[City123]

He's not a lot different to Kieffer in that regard

It's good when he's playing for you

Kieffer gets booked for jumping, Kane throws himself to the floor with regularity and for once the ref didn't buy it. I'm sure we'll hear all about Italian cheating, but some of England's play acting was absurd

[Baloo]

This may actually be a bit harsh but I do find this malarkey of immediately removing the runners-up medal a bit ostentatious. As if it has to be immediately shown to everybody that the players were there to win.

Appreciate they're disappointed but having having accepted all the plaudits for getting there I think a bit more dignity could be shown after losing to a better team. See Wimbledon runners-up for instance.

[Cleve van Leef]

He's not a lot different to Kieffer in that regard

It's good when he's playing for you

You’re very wrong about Moore.

[MacAdder]

This may actually be a bit harsh but I do find this malarkey of immediately removing the runners-up medal a bit ostentatious. As if it has to be immediately shown to everybody that the players were there to win.

Appreciate they're disappointed but having having accepted all the plaudits for getting there I think a bit more dignity could be shown after losing to a better team. See Wimbledon runners-up for instance.

Not harsh at all, in fact it is spot on.

Not an ounce of humility, it's petulance and arrogance.

Why should people feel proud of their achievements when none of them felt pride themselves.

I would feel embarrassed if I was their parent.

[Hilts]

As soon as England lost there would be questions on negative selection.

Foden walks into the Italian team. Doesnt even kick the ball in the final. England have better strikers who didnt even make the plane than Immobile and Belotti.

Grealish Sancho Saka etc all bit part players.

The Italians deserved the win , England have had a superb tournament and been edged out. We will never know what would have happened if say theyd played 1 DM and added another attacking player.

[City123]

As soon as England lost there would be questions on negative selection.

Foden walks into the Italian team. Doesnt even kick the ball in the final. England have better strikers who didnt even make the plane than Immobile and Belotti.

Grealish Sancho Saka etc all bit part players.

The Italians deserved the win , England have had a superb tournament and been edged out. We will never know what would have happened if say theyd played 1 DM and added another attacking player.

Ahead of who? One of the players of the tournament in Chiesa? Insigne who's had a wonderful season with Napoli? Serie A winner Barella?

English teams and players are hugely overhyped. Foden's a good player but he doesn't "walk into" the best team at the tournament. Had England been on the other side of the draw they'd have been knocked out well before the final

[chrisp_1927]

4 inches the other way ......

Sounds like a decent film that .

[Hilts]

Ahead of who? One of the players of the tournament in Chiesa? Insigne who's had a wonderful season with Napoli? Serie A winner Barella?

English teams and players are hugely overhyped. Foden's a good player but he doesn't "walk into" the best team at the tournament. Had England been on the other side of the draw they'd have been knocked out well before the final

Fair point on the players you mention all top quality.

If Foden was Italian I think axing Immobile and playing Insigne through the centre improves them.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

I agree with this. They had the right talent, skills & opportunities but never used them.

.
I thought Italy looked edgy for most of the 1st half. They had decent possession after the 1st 20 minutes or so, but didn't look at all confident. I'm sure England could have got a second if they kept up their high intensity/attacking game, but they just sank back into their shell. In my mind England don't have a weakness when it comes to individual players, but they lacked character, bottle. In the end, the better team won.

[surge]

As soon as England lost there would be questions on negative selection.

Foden walks into the Italian team. Doesnt even kick the ball in the final. England have better strikers who didnt even make the plane than Immobile and Belotti.

Grealish Sancho Saka etc all bit part players.

The Italians deserved the win , England have had a superb tournament and been edged out. We will never know what would have happened if say theyd played 1 DM and added another attacking player.

England had a very good tournament but they played 6 out of 7 games at home and despite this failed to beat a top 10 nation in normal time. While rankings flawed, no way Czechia should be ranked FIFA's 40th best side, officially they played against as many sides in FIFA's 40s as the top 10, beat a Croatia side not as good as they were 3 years ago, a Germany side not as good as they were 5 years ago and a Ukraine side with top players injured in a round too far for them.

Performances were very good, attitude was very good but it's surely a bit much to say they had a superb tournament?

Italy beat 3 teams in the top 10 (1 in normal time), beat 2 teams ranked 10-20 (same as England) and beat the the 2 teams they played ranked 20-30. They didn't face anyone outside top 30 and had a much better tournament overall.