Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

Hard hitting stuff from a palliative care doctor.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/20/if-johnson-didnt-believe-the-nhs-overwhelmed-stuff-why-was-he-clapping

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

Please stop. You don't even realize (apparently) that you are just repeating a form of the NEW World Order conspiracy theory.

you talk some highbrow shite don't you? New world order theory my arse. You're obsessed with conspiracies.

[lardy]

Re: Coronavirus update

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52380643

This makes interesting reading.

Their numbers suggest that the rate of spread of the infection indicates it is now doubling every 16 days whereas at the end of June it was doubling every 7 days. Seems like it might be leveling out.
But further down the ONS survey for the 7 day period (Which of course is much better a guide) shows that the rate of infection is actally falling. Make what you will from that.

But of course the ONS might just be down a trump hole or something. Who knows?

Doubling every 16 days doesn't sound like levelling out to me.

[blue matt]

Re: Coronavirus update

Doubling every 16 days doesn't sound like levelling out to me.

better than every 9 days like they said before

so the curve is not as steep, some might say its the start of the curve starting to flatten

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Coronavirus update

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52380643

This makes interesting reading.

Their numbers suggest that the rate of spread of the infection indicates it is now doubling every 16 days whereas at the end of June it was doubling every 7 days. Seems like it might be leveling out.
But further down the ONS survey for the 7 day period (Which of course is much better a guide) shows that the rate of infection is actally falling. Make what you will from that.

But of course the ONS might just be down a trump hole or something. Who knows?

That shows that for every person getting infected in Wales more than two are contracting Covid in England. As you say, interesting reading.

[lardy]

Re: Coronavirus update

better than every 9 days like they said before

so the curve is not as steep, some might say its the start of the curve starting to flatten

Yes, better in the sense that it's getting larger less quickly. But that's quite a few steps from levelling out.

Some might say that now is the time for England to chuck their masks in the bin. Some might.

[Vindec]

Re: Coronavirus update

Bob Wilson wrote:

"People on the left tend to be far more critical of their own than people on the right are in my experience (in public anyway)........................................... ......"

Obviously we are not going to agree but the point I made is that those who vote differently to the majority on this forum simply don't bother to criticise Labour policy and Labour Party leadership. There is no point as their comments are confronted by posts which make them wonder why they bother. I'm at that stage and will attempt to refrain on commenting on such issues in the future. There have been several Labour issues that have not been commented on this forum such as for example:

1. Starmer siding with the Unions original view that children shouldn't return to school only to change his stance later on to blame the government for making slow progress.

2. Nobody seemed to comment adversely on the decision to appoint Starmer as Leader when reports suggested it was his BREXIT policy that was one of the main reasons for Labour doing so badly at the General Election.

3. No comment was forthcoming on the left of the Labour Party seeking to replace Starmer with Angela Rayner if Labour lost the Batley and Spen by election.

4. Nothing much about Starmer trying to sack Angela Rayner only to find she was reappointed 24 hours later with a wider portfolio to strengthen her position.

5. Not much about Dawn Butler presenting misleading photographs to support her claim the Police were racist.

In relation to your other comment about what the government have done well beyond the vaccine is a reasonable point but that was a pretty big success that the public at least seem to think was more important than the government's obvious failures if the Hartlepool by election result was anything to go by. Yes the Batley and Spen election was regained by Labour but their share of the vote was hardly an endorsement of Labour Party policy...........whatever that is.

[jon1959]

Re: Coronavirus update

Bob Wilson wrote:

"People on the left tend to be far more critical of their own than people on the right are in my experience (in public anyway)........................................... ......"

Obviously we are not going to agree but the point I made is that those who vote differently to the majority on this forum simply don't bother to criticise Labour policy and Labour Party leadership. There is no point as their comments are confronted by posts which make them wonder why they bother. I'm at that stage and will attempt to refrain on commenting on such issues in the future. There have been several Labour issues that have not been commented on this forum such as for example:

1. Starmer siding with the Unions original view that children shouldn't return to school only to change his stance later on to blame the government for making slow progress.

2. Nobody seemed to comment adversely on the decision to appoint Starmer as Leader when reports suggested it was his BREXIT policy that was one of the main reasons for Labour doing so badly at the General Election.

3. No comment was forthcoming on the left of the Labour Party seeking to replace Starmer with Angela Rayner if Labour lost the Batley and Spen by election.

4. Nothing much about Starmer trying to sack Angela Rayner only to find she was reappointed 24 hours later with a wider portfolio to strengthen her position.

5. Not much about Dawn Butler presenting misleading photographs to support her claim the Police were racist.

In relation to your other comment about what the government have done well beyond the vaccine is a reasonable point but that was a pretty big success that the public at least seem to think was more important than the government's obvious failures if the Hartlepool by election result was anything to go by. Yes the Batley and Spen election was regained by Labour but their share of the vote was hardly an endorsement of Labour Party policy...........whatever that is.

That is a strange list - is it your top 5 of incidents/events where you think Labour/Starmer got it wrong without comment on here?

I'm certain there was discussion of point 1 in the Covid thread (not going to trawl through to pick posts out) and at the time many posters agreed with the stance taken by Starmer. His argument at the time was completely consistent with criticising the government for slow progress whether you agreed with him or not.

Points 2-4 have all been discussed in several threads on the Politics board. I agree with your observation in point 2 and said so at the time. So did others.

I have no idea what point 5 is about. Dawn Butler MP accused the police of racial profiling when she was stopped in August last year, and she was supported by spokespeople of the National Black Police Association and others who have campaigned against the racist practice. I don't know what the photos are that you say are misleading - but the police have never denied the stop or given a credible reason for it - the clear inference is that she and her friend in the car were stopped because of their skin colour.

However, if you want to start a pile in on Kier Starmer I'm happy to join in. I am still a member of the Labour Party (just) but I think Starmer and the Blairite gang who are surrounding him (MPs, staff and Mandelson) are a disaster.

[surge]

Re: Coronavirus update

Interesting mask wearing by party allegiance in #PMQs. I'd say only a quarter of Tory MPs are wearing face coverings.
Every Labour MP, @theSNP and @LibDems MP wearing masks.

DUP MPs also not wearing masks.

Update, more Tory MPs have now out them on. Current count: 14 with masks (tho just two on front bench), 17 without (including the Leader of the Commons, Jacob Rees-Mogg)

PM's press secretary: "I think the Prime Minister has been clear about the importance of wearing masks in enclosed setting."

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status...03063788818433

And remember:

15. The peak of the resurgence will however be much lower if the return to pre-pandemic behaviours is gradual, irrespective of legislative decisions (i.e., any changes happen over several months) than if it is rapid, and if more measures to reduce transmission are maintained (high confidence). If the aim is to prevent the NHS being under
pressure the priority should be to avoid a very rapid return to pre-pandemic behaviour which could lead to a peak in hospitalisations similar to (or possibly even higher than) previous peaks. The mechanism by which this gradual change to more mixing is achieved is much less important than the fact it is gradual.

18. As restrictions are lifted it will be important for messaging to communicate the continued risks from COVID-19 and effective mitigations, including information on how to minimise within household spread. SAGE advises that continuing to providenear real time local information on prevalence would be helpful. Communication targeted to both individuals and organisations will be important

(https://assets.publishing.service.go..._July_2021.pdf)

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

That is a strange list - is it your top 5 of incidents/events where you think Labour/Starmer got it wrong without comment on here?

I'm certain there was discussion of point 1 in the Covid thread (not going to trawl through to pick posts out) and at the time many posters agreed with the stance taken by Starmer. His argument at the time was completely consistent with criticising the government for slow progress whether you agreed with him or not.

Points 2-4 have all been discussed in several threads on the Politics board. I agree with your observation in point 2 and said so at the time. So did others.

I have no idea what point 5 is about. Dawn Butler MP accused the police of racial profiling when she was stopped in August last year, and she was supported by spokespeople of the National Black Police Association and others who have campaigned against the racist practice. I don't know what the photos are that you say are misleading - but the police have never denied the stop or given a credible reason for it - the clear inference is that she and her friend in the car were stopped because of their skin colour.

However, if you want to start a pile in on Kier Starmer I'm happy to join in. I am still a member of the Labour Party (just) but I think Starmer and the Blairite gang who are surrounding him (MPs, staff and Mandelson) are a disaster.

I thought the same thing Jon, right down to me knowing nothing about point five.

A constant bugbear of mine is that so many in the Labour party see the other faction in the party as a bigger rival than the party that has kept them out of Government for more than a decade - I’d say that you’d get left wing posters on here joining in with any thread started by a Conservative supporter who were more critical of the Labour Party than the Tory ones!

For myself, you only have to read my reaction to the Batley and Spen result to see I can hardly claim to a blind loyalist either!

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Coronavirus update

It's not a conspiracy theory except in your internet wired head. It's a opinion. Look it up

A theory of a conspiracy not being a conspiracy theory

[Vindec]

Re: Coronavirus update

That is a strange list - is it your top 5 of incidents/events where you think Labour/Starmer got it wrong without comment on here?

I'm certain there was discussion of point 1 in the Covid thread (not going to trawl through to pick posts out) and at the time many posters agreed with the stance taken by Starmer. His argument at the time was completely consistent with criticising the government for slow progress whether you agreed with him or not.

Points 2-4 have all been discussed in several threads on the Politics board. I agree with your observation in point 2 and said so at the time. So did others.

I have no idea what point 5 is about. Dawn Butler MP accused the police of racial profiling when she was stopped in August last year, and she was supported by spokespeople of the National Black Police Association and others who have campaigned against the racist practice. I don't know what the photos are that you say are misleading - but the police have never denied the stop or given a credible reason for it - the clear inference is that she and her friend in the car were stopped because of their skin colour.

However, if you want to start a pile in on Kier Starmer I'm happy to join in. I am still a member of the Labour Party (just) but I think Starmer and the Blairite gang who are surrounding him (MPs, staff and Mandelson) are a disaster.

Not my top 5 - just things that sprung to mind in the couple of minutes it took to write the post. As you hadn't heard of the Dawn Butler story it was in fact a big story at the time but other events got in the way. It probably wasn't the best example to mention at the time and regret doing so. However the events are best described in this You Tube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDFWFlrdCvI&t=11s&ab_channel=MahyarTousi

[az city]

Re: Coronavirus update

you talk some highbrow shite don't you? New world order theory my arse. You're obsessed with conspiracies.

You claimed I was a "dimwit" in a previous post. Do you think "highbrow" is a pejorative? Curious.

You reminded me of: https://gohighbrow.com/portfolio/lea...think-clearly/

[jon1959]

Re: Coronavirus update

I thought the same thing Jon, right down to me knowing nothing about point five.

A constant bugbear of mine is that so many in the Labour party see the other faction in the party as a bigger rival than the party that has kept them out of Government for more than a decade - I’d say that you’d get left wing posters on here joining in with any thread started by a Conservative supporter who were more critical of the Labour Party than the Tory ones!

For myself, you only have to read my reaction to the Batley and Spen result to see I can hardly claim to a blind loyalist either!

I agree with you to an extent about internal Labour feuding, but on a football messageboard I'm not going to hold back when it comes to what I see as internal sabotage and subversion of what a socialist party in the UK should stand for. For most of my life the Labour Party has been centrist, social democratic, controlled by the right, and a friend of interests and powers that exploit and oppress - with Blair and Bush's warmongering two decades ago the recent lowlight.

At the same time the Labour Party is organically linked to the trades union movement, has some brilliant committed people amongst its membership, and even in the worst times is a much better option for ordinary people than the main alternative. Even Gordon Brown has a reasonable track record on redistribution and investment in people (Surestart and the other programmes of the 'landslide' terms 1997-2005) - although he did a lot of it under the radar so as not to upset Rupert Murdoch!

If I tear up my membership card I will still vote Labour and do some legwork in elections for our (very good) local MP. I despise Starmer for reneging on his election promises, offering pathetic opposition to the Tories, and for using his position and the party apparatus to purge socialists and anti-racists from membership - but the party and the movement is bigger than the leader, the PLP and the lobbyists and funders who are directing policy.

I will also go 'Sludge On Steroids' when it comes to the clown and his party who currently (mis)govern at Westminster. I'm sure Vindec will be very happy with my balanced approach to political threads on here.

[Tuerto]

Re: Coronavirus update

I agree with you to an extent about internal Labour feuding, but on a football messageboard I'm not going to hold back when it comes to what I see as internal sabotage and subversion of what a socialist party in the UK should stand for. For most of my life the Labour Party has been centrist, social democratic, controlled by the right, and a friend of interests and powers that exploit and oppress - with Blair and Bush's warmongering two decades ago the recent lowlight.

At the same time the Labour Party is organically linked to the trades union movement, has some brilliant committed people amongst its membership, and even in the worst times is a much better option for ordinary people than the main alternative. Even Gordon Brown has a reasonable track record on redistribution and investment in people (Surestart and the other programmes of the 'landslide' terms 1997-2005) - although he did a lot of it under the radar so as not to upset Rupert Murdoch!

If I tear up my membership card I will still vote Labour and do some legwork in elections for our (very good) local MP. I despise Starmer for reneging on his election promises, offering pathetic opposition to the Tories, and for using his position and the party apparatus to purge socialists and anti-racists from membership - but the party and the movement is bigger than the leader, the PLP and the lobbyists and funders who are directing policy.

I will also go 'Sludge On Steroids' when it comes to the clown and his party who currently (mis)govern at Westminster. I'm sure Vindec will be very happy with my balanced approach to political threads on here.

We had a real opportunity under Corbyn, He was simply left wing, hardly radical, yet it shows that the establishment and the PLP are having none of it. I'm still a member, although i don't really know why. My wife and daughter have left, although still vote Labour.