oh yesOriginally Posted by William Treseder
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Religious groups in UK failing children over sex abuse, report says https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58420270
oh yes
The world would be a far better place without religion.
We are born
We live our life
We die
We rot in the ground
That just about sums it up
No gods or greater beings involved
There are quite a wide variety of religious views to be fair. We mostly hear about the more fundamentalist types.
And they can shove them where the sun doesn't shine.
If it makes one happy and they believe doing “good” will make them go in to a better place, let them be I say. It’s when they harp on to others about it or get fundamental is the issue for me.
Or when they hide things like child abuse because they don't want their imaginary friend to get a bad name. Get rid of religion and we'd evolve as a race.
Hell?
You’re sounding pretty fundamentalist yourself there. Religious groups like The Quakers accept members who are Non Theist and don’t actually believe in the supernatural or a divine being for instance. They do some great work however around justice, peace building and social action. The world would likely be a bit of a worse place if their beliefs were shoved where the sun don’t shine imo.
That would be a great thesis for a university student.
I wonder what proportion of child abuse is committed by 'non-religious' people.
I wonder what proportion of child abuse is committed by those with a mental health issue.
I wonder what proportion of child abuse is committed by those who are wealthy / in power.
I'm not a believer, although I can see the appeal of faith and the collective power of a religion. However, it's wrong to oppose the concept of religion due to some bad eggs.
Many societies have tried to eradicate religion and they are always worse than the ones that were tolerant of it; Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin. Even Hitler oppressed the church.
Religious fundementalism is just as bad if not worse, but religion isn't the problem; an extreme interpretation of it is.
The problem is always an extreme interpretation; whether its national identity, socialism, islam, christianity..whatever.
No doubt loads of truly awful people have hidden behind religion and those religions have helped them hide and do awful acts, but we shouldn't tar the entire concept of religion with that brush.
Just as how for centuries churches have organised and supported housing and food for the poor doesn't mean we overlook them when they do appalling things.
Hitler may have opposed the church but the roman Catholic popes definitely supported him
Aye
I think they saw the writing on the wall as much as anything and were pretty gutless in opposition. Which is definitely a criticism of the catholic church, but at that time in europe, atheists were murdering people due to their faith, so its definitely not a story that advocates militant atheism either.
It's all about balance and tolerance really. There's good and bad in everyone, every country, every religion etc etc
You don't have to be a person of faith to do good things
That's what annoys me about religious people
They think it's god influencing them to do good things
It's bollocks
You don't have to go to church or be religious to do good things or be kind
You can be a member of the local chess club and still be kind and help the homeless
People are human beings and in general don't do something for nothing
People who go to church and pray do so because they want to get to this place called heaven
They help the poor because they think it will make God think they are good people and he will look after them
Some bloke who is on the dole and gives a quid to a homeless person is every bit as good a person as the couple all dressed up singing in church on a Sunday
My view is there probably isn't a god but if there is I will have done enough to have be let into his paradise
I agree with that
Apart from jacks
All vermin
All institutions, religious or not (royal family, media, education, sports clubs, churches and workplaces etc) are often breeding grounds for sexual abuse and sexual misconduct.
The particular issue with religious institutions where this happens is particularly gruelling as they 'pretend' and set themselves up as the 'good' and morally superior than the rest of us.
MANY religious institutions are however leading the way in safeguarding children in their emergency response programs. But I can't tell you how many people, who would define themselves as 'religious', I have investigated for child abuse here in Uganda and other parts of the world using their religion, mission or church as a cover for their behaviour.
However they would probably do it anyway, even without their religious cover, and just find another way to do it.
The thing we need to be better at is tearing organisations apart when they have been found to actively cover stuff up.
The Catholic Church has covered up and provided cover for child abuse for hundreds of years
These safeguarding children departments are laughable , run by the pope
It's like giving a robber your credit card
Religion is archaic and based on fairy tales and fantasy
Science is progress and this is what should be fed to our children , not fake stories about making blind men see and disabled people suddenly being able to walk because the son of God blessed them 🙏
I reckon empathy and collaboration has probably offered evolutionary advantage so ultimately, whether you're religious or not, it's ultimately rooted in self-interest. Nothing wrong with that of course, we're wired this way though natural selection and it can still provide many people and animals with more meaningful and productive lives. That's not to say of course everybody will behave that way whatever their beliefs.
I don't disagree Sludge. The catholic church is implicit in 100's of years of cover up.
What I do see is some religious based organisations (not churches) doing some good work in this area. As an example, LWF in Uganda work in refugee communities (about 400000 people) and are one of the best organisations that help protect child, better in fact than some non-religious ones.
Religion pervades every culture on the Earth. It seems as though were born to do it.
I find Dawkins' ideas on the reasons for religion fairly convincing.
I.e. it is an evolutionary side-effect of a beneficial trait - believing what the elders have told you when you were growing up.
this berry is poisonous, this is the correct way to cook this plant, we don't eat this animal etc etc are easy to see how that is a beneficial trait
this is then twisted and used to control people and wield power by people over the centuries.
That isn't to say that people don't take positives from organised religions today as well.
It can be a way of meeting and making friends, can provide pastoral care to vulnerable people, gives people a mechanism for thoughtfulness and self reflection, helps people form a cohesive cultural identity. Reaching out to the vulnerable with charitable acts etc
I think that this is just people doing good and the religion os providing the framework for that, so the flip side is probably also true - the murdering, discrimination, child abuse, judging and other terrible things that people do in the name of religion aren't because of the religion, but the religion is just the mechanism that is being used by bad people to do them.
as such I don't think religions are inherently good or bad - they are just something we are programmed to do. and perhaps we should approach them with that in mind.
I think we see this trait manifest itself in other ways also - how many non religious people HAVE to eat turkey on christmas day - even if they don't particularly like it and don't eat it any other day of the year.
How many people support the monarchy - not because they think it is the best system for a head of state, but because they feel that that is the way that WE as a nation do things and to change it seems contrary to our traditions (the royal family absolutely play on this btw)
Sludge, if you ever get the chance, do some reading up on the resistance groups formed by priests, nuns and the congregation, who fought against Hitler, Franco and Mussolini. It's fascinating stuff and shows that having a puerile outlook on those with faith is a very big mistake to make.
I agree
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