One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

[Baloo]

I have no idea but you defend the right of people to believe in things that evidently don't exist so I have the right to suggest you may have a vested interest in doing that .

A lot of non-religious people might still consider freedom of belief a human right. I don’t see a contradiction there providing it doesn’t interfere with the rights of others.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

A lot of non-religious people might still consider freedom of belief a human right. I don’t see a contradiction there providing it doesn’t interfere with the rights of others.

Propping up the churches and other places of worship could be argued to interfere with the lives of other people

Homosexuality , women priests, gay marriage

Do you think it was the power of the congregation that made the church more Liberal?

I think it was the pressure from non religious society

The Anglican Church now has women priests ........that was down to society . If the church had its way it would have kept the status quo and no progress would have been made .

[Baloo]

Propping up the churches and other places of worship could be argued to interfere with the lives of other people

Homosexuality , women priests, gay marriage

Do you think it was the power of the congregation that made the church more Liberal?

I think it was the pressure from non religious society

The Anglican Church now has women priests ........that was down to society . If the church had its way it would have kept the status quo and no progress would have been made .

We’re talking at odds here. Some religious groups don’t even have churches. My point was merely that there are a spectrum of beliefs, whilst your descriptions mostly apply to a specific type of religious believer, of which there of course many. The evidence is out there.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

OK, but my post was specifically about The Quakers who are pacifists and have a long tradition of resistance to military action.

The Quakers are indeed interesting. A retired doctor in my evening class is one and told me a little of what they do in their meetings.

[Dorcus]

The Quakers are indeed interesting. A retired doctor in my evening class is one and told me a little of what they do in their meetings.

They make lovely porridge

[Sloop_Jon_Bee]

Back in the days of uneducated people, and before science, Man needed religion to make some sense of the world, to explain where we all came from, what we were doing here, and what happens when we die. Now, science has explained everything (okay, most things), and we no longer need religion. But we do need a sense of belonging, and that's why people join clubs, go to football, etc. We don't need God, but we do need the companionship of like-minded people.

But religion is still there, and it still has a lot of wealth and authority, although in reality, it doesn't deserve either.

But as regards child abuse, I guess that if that is your 'thing', then you'd hang out where there were plenty of kids, where you'd have a bit of respectability, and where you might come across like-minded people. Hence teachers, priests, sports coaches, tend to throw up a high percentage of these perverts.

Good post.
Spedger

[Eric the Half a Bee]

The Anglican Church now has women priests ........that was down to society . If the church had its way it would have kept the status quo and no progress would have been made .

Issues like women priests, even women bishops now, marrying divorced people, acceptance of homosexuality and so on has come from society and from within the church, as the church looks to reflect society. People within church have fought for things like this, after all it's your average members of society that go to church.

[ToTaL ITK]

My favourite is the catholic stance on abortion in secular countries like the good ol' US of A.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

My favourite is the catholic stance on abortion in secular countries like the good ol' US of A.

There is a group called Christian mothers against masturbation.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Issues like women priests, even women bishops now, marrying divorced people, acceptance of homosexuality and so on has come from society and from within the church, as the church looks to reflect society. People within church have fought for things like this, after all it's your average members of society that go to church.

I don't think people who are you average Joe go to church

The kids who I grew up with and were cool to be with were not in church on a Sunday

They were listening to metal , fishing and playing football

The only reason why the church has changed is because society has demanded that it did

It's still outdated though with little relevance to 2021

I know people who give to the local food bank who are church goers and all goody goody and others who wouldn't be seen dead anywhere near a church yet give loads of money to save the children , the homeless etc

Religion doesn't have a monopoly on child abuse but it also doesn't have a monopoly on good deeds either

You can be a member of a train spotting club and do loads for charity

I can't stand that saying to be good is to be a Christian

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

There is a group called Christian mothers against masturbation.

Have u got a link ?

I would like to do an online presentation

A mass debate for want of a better word 🤔

[Citizen's Nephew]

I don't think people who are you average Joe go to church

The kids who I grew up with and were cool to be with were not in church on a Sunday

They were listening to metal , fishing and playing football

The only reason why the church has changed is because society has demanded that it did

It's still outdated though with little relevance to 2021

I know people who give to the local food bank who are church goers and all goody goody and others who wouldn't be seen dead anywhere near a church yet give loads of money to save the children , the homeless etc

Religion doesn't have a monopoly on child abuse but it also doesn't have a monopoly on good deeds either

You can be a member of a train spotting club and do loads for charity

I can't stand that saying to be good is to be a Christian

How weird is that? My childhood was completely the opposite!

It never ceases to amaze me that people actually think calling others goody, goody or 'do-gooders' is some form of insult when it's completely the opposite. How to alienate people Sludge. Way to go.

But I'm going to rejoice in a miracle.

A post turned into whine.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I don't think people who are you average Joe go to church

The kids who I grew up with and were cool to be with were not in church on a Sunday

They were listening to metal , fishing and playing football

So your definition of an average Joe is different. It doesn't make for a balanced story,

[az city]

Would you say that all poor people are just lazy, people who suffer with mental health are weak etc? Of course you wouldn't, as that would be generalising, which almost certainly panders to the most extreme amongst us, and as a result, ends In people being persecuted because of a certain belief etc

Some poor people are lazy, some are not. Some rich people are lazy, some are not.

ALL those "with religious faith" are deluded. They are also dangerous. I give you Afghanistan and the Taliban...

[az city]

The Quakers are indeed interesting. A retired doctor in my evening class is one and told me a little of what they do in their meetings.

The Shakers are more interesting. They died out because they didn't believe in sex. You couldn't make it up with religious BS...

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

How weird is that? My childhood was completely the opposite!

It never ceases to amaze me that people actually think calling others goody, goody or 'do-gooders' is some form of insult when it's completely the opposite. How to alienate people Sludge. Way to go.

But I'm going to rejoice in a miracle.

A post turned into whine.

So you went to church every Sunday as a 14 year old kid whilst others were out fishing , playing football , listening to music ?

I think I had a normal childhood myself

I don't think it's normal for 14 year old boys to be singing religious songs with their parents

Christians do good things

Ordinary people do good things

The bible tells Christians if they do good acts they will go to heaven but only if they also worship God and Jesus

I would rather be an ordinary person who does good things then we can cut out the church bit and you can then be certain someone collecting for the homeless is a good person not doing it to get them to paradise

[Tuerto]

Some poor people are lazy, some are not. Some rich people are lazy, some are not.

ALL those "with religious faith" are deluded. They are also dangerous. I give you Afghanistan and the Taliban...

Heck, this is going way too far.

[az city]

Heck, this is going way too far.

Forgive me.

(Credit to Bill Hicks.)

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

So your definition of an average Joe is different. It doesn't make for a balanced story,

It appears perfectly normal for young lads to go fishing be attracted to girls .....or boys .....go fishing ......drink alcohol ......look at porn , listen to rock , disco , metal etc

And young women too

When I was young once you realised God was a myth you stopped being dragged along to church and found other things to do with your time

I grew up a Catholic, my mother's side of the family were from Ireland originally . My mother still watches mass online as does my sister but nobody else in the family is interested . My cousins, all secular , grew up mountain biking , swimming , fishing , sailing , my sisters kids into cycling , horses , running . No interest in church at all .

It's like this for most people who are fed religion but realise its daft . The local Catholic church where I was first taken , I don't know of any of the kids who were there when I was 12 who go now .

It's boring and has very little relevance to most people and most people brought up in religious families fly the nest .

I think that's good as a reliance on faith to get you through life is not very realistic .

For example at Xmas my mother had pneumonia and was in hospital . In March the doctor phoned to say she was being discharged . One of mum's church friends , a very kind lady but totally sucked in by her Catholic faith phoned up and said how is mum ......I said she's coming home .......she said I knew all our prayers would be answered !

Mum came home , fell over and broke her hip and was back in the ambulance .

I mean either praying is a complete waste of time or they were not praying hard enough

[az city]

So you went to church every Sunday as a 14 year old kid whilst others were out fishing , playing football , listening to music ?

I think I had a normal childhood myself

I don't think it's normal for 14 year old boys to be singing religious songs with their parents

Christians do good things

Ordinary people do good things

The bible tells Christians if they do good acts they will go to heaven but only if they also worship God and Jesus

I would rather be an ordinary person who does good things then we can cut out the church bit and you can then be certain someone collecting for the homeless is a good person not doing it to get them to paradise

Aye but religious folks only do good deeds to curry favour with their (non-existent) deity of choice not necessarily because they recognize the inherent goodness in their acts

Non-religious folks do good deeds without the need for "heavenly" reward.

Who are the better group? Clearly the non-religious.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Aye but religious folks only do good deeds to curry favour with their (non-existent) deity of choice not necessarily because they recognize the inherent goodness in their acts

Non-religious folks do good deeds without the need for "heavenly" reward.

Who are the better group? Clearly the non-religious.

I tend to agree with you

Maybe not better but probably more realistic

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Forgive me.

(Credit to Bill Hicks.)

https://youtu.be/oyWzSDg0pc8

Hey buddy .........come here !

[Tuerto]

Forgive me.

(Credit to Bill Hicks.)

Ah, get it now

[Tuerto]

It appears perfectly normal for young lads to go fishing be attracted to girls .....or boys .....go fishing ......drink alcohol ......look at porn , listen to rock , disco , metal etc

And young women too

When I was young once you realised God was a myth you stopped being dragged along to church and found other things to do with your time

I grew up a Catholic, my mother's side of the family were from Ireland originally . My mother still watches mass online as does my sister but nobody else in the family is interested . My cousins, all secular , grew up mountain biking , swimming , fishing , sailing , my sisters kids into cycling , horses , running . No interest in church at all .

It's like this for most people who are fed religion but realise its daft . The local Catholic church where I was first taken , I don't know of any of the kids who were there when I was 12 who go now .

It's boring and has very little relevance to most people and most people brought up in religious families fly the nest .

I think that's good as a reliance on faith to get you through life is not very realistic .

For example at Xmas my mother had pneumonia and was in hospital . In March the doctor phoned to say she was being discharged . One of mum's church friends , a very kind lady but totally sucked in by her Catholic faith phoned up and said how is mum ......I said she's coming home .......she said I knew all our prayers would be answered !

Mum came home , fell over and broke her hip and was back in the ambulance .

I mean either praying is a complete waste of time or they were not praying hard enough

So, basically, this is all about your experience, not the wider population, people with a whole host of thoughts, beliefs, interpretations, experiences, occupations, political beliefs etc. I thought that we were exploring the nuanced shades of faith, rather than the sludge factory show.

[Tuerto]

Aye but religious folks only do good deeds to curry favour with their (non-existent) deity of choice not necessarily because they recognize the inherent goodness in their acts

Non-religious folks do good deeds without the need for "heavenly" reward.

Who are the better group? Clearly the non-religious.

Hmmm..people do good for many different reasons. Some, because it gives them pleasure or can make them look good. Although, does it matter, as long as the 'goodness' is beneficial to those in need?