So it's National Insurance then

[tforturton]

My understanding that this increase was also to help clear some of the NHS backlog?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Thank you for the explanation, as always with these things the devil is in the detail eh? It frightens me to think what kind of care we would get for £35,000 per year when we pay nearly double that. I don't know if you've had any experience dealing with Cardiff Council to help with care funding but bloody hell they are slow, still waiting for an assessment of my mum's needs after 6 months!

Aye , it's torture

Good luck

[chris lee]

edit

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Whilst we are living in unprecedented times ......

Matt Hancock , Mr Naughty as he's known with the ladies , stood up in the commons to speak 😉

WTF ?

[William Treseder]

Lets be honest here. At a rough guess, i’d say at least 50% of self employed folk claimed all 5 government grants, when they couldn’t really justify it.
That will be conveniently brushed under the carpet by the Government bashers on here.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Lets be honest here. At a rough guess, i’d say at least 50% of self employed folk claimed all 5 government grants, when they couldn’t really justify it.
That will be conveniently brushed under the carpet by the Government bashers on here.

Self employed people who said their declared income was etc etc and were accused of always trousering the cash had an income during the pandemic equitable to what they had declared

Which is right and justifiable isn't it ?

[Vindec]

Assuming that this idea is a re-invented version of changes proposed in 2015 (which it seems to be), the idea that no-one will pay more than £85,000 is a myth, unfortunately - but it's a great headline!

I'm an IFA specialising in retirement / later life planning, and the proposal seems to be along the lines of ...

Let's say someone's paying £60,000pa (which is about the rate for a good quality care home).

Firstly, £12-£14,000 of this £60,000 will be treated as 'hotel costs' (food and accommodation) so immediately only around £47,000 will be counted towards the 'cap'.

Secondly, the system needs to be set up to avoid it being abused ... if it's all fully paid for when someone hits the 'cap', then we there would be a clamour to book mum and dad the flashest, nicest - and most expensive care home possible. So the amount that counts toward the 'cap' will be a 'reasonable' one. This looks like it's based on what the local authority pay for their care homes; somewhere in the region of £35,000pa.

So, forget that someone's paying £60,000 - Boris reckons £35,000 is what's 'reasonable' to pay (although I've not met any self-funder able to get a half decent care home for anywhere near this), and we need to deduct £13,000 for hotel costs. Therefore of the £60,000 paid, only around £22,000 will only count to this £85,000 'cap'.

To hit the £85,000 'cap' on care, someone paying £60,000pa would need to have actually paid around four years (longer than the average spell in a care home incidentally) - so around £240,000.

After this point, Bozza will step in and pay what they feel is a reasonable element towards the 'care' cost (ie £22,000 per year of the £60,000).

I've got too much time on my hands ... bring back the football!!!

Very interesting. If true there is not a single commentator who has analysed the implications in such detail. I presume the upshot of today's plan will mean those in residential care will still be required to sell their homes to pay for their care.

If that is the case I cannot understand why so much money is required to pay for a system that is not very much different (except for some tinkering around the edges) to the present arrangements.

[bluesp]

Aye , it's torture

Good luck

Thanks Sludge

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

So Wales gets a share of this money

Considering South Wales in particular spends a great deal on social care then clearly it needs to get its nose in the trough

[Wash DC Blue]

The social care system in this country has had it

The elderly population keeps living longer

And the people who work in care are paid crap wages

It's a tsunami

When people regularly take out more of the system than put in that’s what happens.

Then those same people who have contributed the best part of Fukc all moan about it.

There absolutely should be a tier system for who has paid NI over the years.
Those that have paid most should absolutely get better and preferential treatment.

The houses that they WORKED to pay for should go to what they want.

You do believe in Darwin’s Survival of the Fittest and natural selection after all!!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Thanks Sludge

I would contact Age Cymru and ask for guto or Simon, the information and advice workers , if anyone can advise you regarding financial matters they can

Age Cymru can send you booklets on caring for and funding or applying for funding for home care or residential care for your loved ones

The number is 0300 303 4498

Care home fact sheet is 10 W

Support at home fact sheet 46 W

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Thank you for the explanation, as always with these things the devil is in the detail eh? It frightens me to think what kind of care we would get for £35,000 per year when we pay nearly double that. I don't know if you've had any experience dealing with Cardiff Council to help with care funding but bloody hell they are slow, still waiting for an assessment of my mum's needs after 6 months!

You need to contact Age Cymru to hurry up this matter

Does your mother wish to stay at home ?

0300 303 4498

If you can get hold of Simon or guto they will help you

[cityhammer]

Sounds like the politics of envy there to me. Plus, just because you are living in a house worth over £500000 doesn’t mean you are rich. There are two or three bed semis in Cardiff worth that. Plus again that most pensioners have worked hard all their life, paid their taxes and National Insurance, and spent/saved their money prudently, so why should they have their property snatched off them later in life.

You could also take the view that if you have plenty of savings why should the state fund your every need so that you can pass on your wealth to your kids.

[cityhammer]

c,mon starmer now its your chance to shine .....................

this is going to be good.

[Wash DC Blue]

You could also take the view that if you have plenty of savings why should the state fund your every need so that you can pass on your wealth to your kids.

Because they have paid into the system for their WORKING lives.
It’ should be owed to them.
Their frugality or smart investments should go to what the **** they want.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Because they have paid into the system for their WORKING lives.
It’ should be owed to them.
Their frugality or smart investments should go to what the **** they want.

I understand that but there are some very wealthy people out there who could afford nursing care in their final days yet still leave inheritance

Of course in an ideal world what you say is correct but there has to be some kind of cut off

If you are worth 5 million and nursing costs will be 300k till you die is it right in general terms that someone who may have had an industrial accident gets crap care whilst you get good care ?

OK I am taking a utopian look at things but it's late here 🙃

[Wash DC Blue]

I understand that but there are some very wealthy people out there who could afford nursing care in their final days yet still leave inheritance

Of course in an ideal world what you say is correct but there has to be some kind of cut off

If you are worth 5 million and nursing costs will be 300k till you die is it right in general terms that someone who may have had an industrial accident gets crap care whilst you get good care ?

OK I am taking a utopian look at things but it's late here 🙃

I’m looking at it through Working Class lens here.
For instance my Dad and my Late Mother’s resentment of what would become of what they worked for if they had to go into care.

You are talking shift workers here, the pair of them.
Their MO was to give my Brother and I a better deal than they had.

Of Course they surpassed that massively.
My Mother, A Pill Girl teaching me how to read at a more advanced level than school did back then.

My Dad, an Alway boy taught me and tested me on my Capital Cities.

Their love and work was for each other and their kids.
They paid their dues and worked hard!!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I’m looking at it through Working Class lens here.
For instance my Dad and my Late Mother’s resentment of what would become of what they worked for if they had to go into care.

You are talking shift workers here, the pair of them.
Their MO was to give my Brother and I a better deal than they had.

Of Course they surpassed that massively.
My Mother, A Pill Girl teaching me how to read at a more advanced level than school did back then.

My Dad, an Alway boy taught me and tested me on my Capital Cities.

Their love and work was for each other and their kids.
They paid their dues and worked hard!!

I am not doubting they did mate

And it's not their level of income I am meaning to debate

We are talking or I am talking very wealthy people

Anyway I am off to bed , it's bloody hot over in taffyland tonight

[blue matt]

Sounds like the politics of envy there to me. Plus, just because you are living in a house worth over £500000 doesn’t mean you are rich. There are two or three bed semis in Cardiff worth that. Plus again that most pensioners have worked hard all their life, paid their taxes and National Insurance, and spent/saved their money prudently, so why should they have their property snatched off them later in life.

Ive never understood the argument that your house has to be sold of to pay for care

these people have paid tax's and NI all their lives, yes they own a home, but surely paying NI and tax's for 50 years mean they have paid enough into the " pot " to not have their home sold from under them

I must have been in my early 20's when I first heard of this, a colleague was angry that his parents were heading into a home, he had been told they had to sell their home ( they had built it themselves down in Cornwall overlooking a beach ) this couple had both worked till retirement ( he was a doctor and she worked as a school nurse giving MMR jabs around Cornwall ) of course they had paid a lot in to the pot, yet were having the house taken away to fund the care home

[Eric Cartman]

Because they have paid into the system for their WORKING lives.
It’ should be owed to them.
Their frugality or smart investments should go to what the **** they want.

You understand we live in a Ponzi scheme right? What we hand out to people who don't need it today can't be spent on a) people who do or b) advancing society so that everybody can live a better life in the future. There isn't 'a pot' as some people like to say. We have an ageing population and haven't spent one second planning for it, even if we had previously had a government willing to look beyond one term, people would have voted against a pragmatic approach anyway.

[Eric Cartman]

Ive never understood the argument that your house has to be sold of to pay for care

these people have paid tax's and NI all their lives, yes they own a home, but surely paying NI and tax's for 50 years mean they have paid enough into the " pot " to not have their home sold from under them

I must have been in my early 20's when I first heard of this, a colleague was angry that his parents were heading into a home, he had been told they had to sell their home ( they had built it themselves down in Cornwall overlooking a beach ) this couple had both worked till retirement ( he was a doctor and she worked as a school nurse giving MMR jabs around Cornwall ) of course they had paid a lot in to the pot, yet were having the house taken away to fund the care home

There isn't a pot. We are 2 Trillion in debt, if anything, the longer you have been alive, the longer you have been bankrupting the country.

[Wash DC Blue]

There isn't a pot. We are 2 Trillion in debt, if anything, the longer you have been alive, the longer you have been bankrupting the country.

Austerity or euthanasia.
Heck of a choice.

Those people who have worked all their lives don’t matter.
They can no longer be part of the production line regardless of what they have put in.

Fcuk off you Bell!

[cityhammer]

Ive never understood the argument that your house has to be sold of to pay for care

these people have paid tax's and NI all their lives, yes they own a home, but surely paying NI and tax's for 50 years mean they have paid enough into the " pot " to not have their home sold from under them

I must have been in my early 20's when I first heard of this, a colleague was angry that his parents were heading into a home, he had been told they had to sell their home ( they had built it themselves down in Cornwall overlooking a beach ) this couple had both worked till retirement ( he was a doctor and she worked as a school nurse giving MMR jabs around Cornwall ) of course they had paid a lot in to the pot, yet were having the house taken away to fund the care home

Think how much they've paid in, and how quickly that would be used up in pension and care costs. they will never have paid "enough" into the pot, and its unwise to use that as an argument when discussing the issue.

[Wash DC Blue]

Think how much they've paid in, and how quickly that would be used up in pension and care costs. they will never have paid "enough" into the pot, and its unwise to use that as an argument when discussing the issue.

And here is where the conversation gets tasty isn’t it.
An ever increasing amount of people taking out more than they have put in, in addition to those that have never put in at all.

[the other bob wilson]

I'd described my politics as, first and foremost, anti Conservative these days, but, although I think the Government are only doing what they did yesterday because they have to (like many who came before him, Johnson would kick this can further down the road in typical fashion if he could), I can't get too worked up in these circumstances about what are, effectively, tax rises. Similarly, although it's somehow typical that it happens less than five months before I reach state pension age (having had it put back to sixty six), I can understand the decision to suspend the triple lock on pensions for a year (will it ever return I wonder?).

The thing is though, yesterday's announcement was similar to a budget in some ways as, on the day, the discussion is all about what the Government wants it to be about, it usually takes a few hours for the downsides of the Chancellor's announcements to come to light. That's what's happened today with those two bastions of Corbynite socialism, the Daily Telegraph and Times, running stories about how the tax burden in the UK will become the highest it's been for seventy years (according to the Times), while the Telegraph says it'll be the highest it's been since the Second World War - all of this from a party that sells itself as being much more anti tax than Labour.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-58483020

For decades, Tories wishing to score points at Labour's expense have branded them the "tax and spend" party, but has there ever been a Government that deserves that description more than this one? It'll be very interesting to see if the forty two per cent or so who, according to the polls, have stuck with Johnson and his inept Cabinet through thin and thin still do so after this - the front page of the Telegraph also carries an opinion piece saying that Johnson sounded "the death knell for Conservatism" yesterday.