Reply With QuoteHe didn't pick Malky.
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Almost every aspect of the club is overseen by Tan or employees that have been put in place by Tan.
He has been in place over a decade and has picked the following managers to take this club forward - Malky, Ole, Slade, Trollope, Warnock, Harris, McCarthy.
Whether you agree with them or not he picked them.
For me it is rich to pick a man and then be unhappy with spending and signings that you have signed off.
Tan picks the board, the manager, the people in charge of the academy, the tea lady if he chooses. He oversees everything and can change what he likes when he likes, even the kit.
If the board he picks have picked the wrong manager then that is on him. If they release funds for a signing for a manager that they have picked then sorry that again is the fault of the owner.
We can argue the toss about the latest manager who has been installed to be shot at all we like but unless Tan changes his thinking on the way the rest of the club works then he will continue to make the same errors again and again. Just changing one man over and over will see very little change long term.
You can't bask in the glory of the right decisions you make and then put on the naive act when things go wrong. You either have that footballing knowledge or admit you do not and employ somebody that does.
For me, as a club we are going around in circles. Let's say we made the play offs and miraculously got promoted this season, does anybody here think the people in charge here above the manager would have any clue how to keep us up?
Cardiff City at the moment is like groundhog day.
Pick a manager, give him money/or not based on a manager stinging you previously (a manager you picked and signings you agreed to). Hope for success and if it doesn't work sack him and change the manager while keeping almost everything else constant.
Tan dictates almost all aspects of the club and it is Tan who should be held accountable. Slating the latest manager in charge isn't going to change anything because the decision makers here aren't doing anything differently and won't be doing any time soon it seems.
He didn't pick Malky.
My mistake. If so we can knock the appointment of the most successful manager of his reign off the list.Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
The rest I stand by though. Everything is overseen and could have been influenced or changed by Tan in his time here.
If it still needs work or changes then it is down to him. All of it.
Slade, Harris and McCarthy spent very little at a time of cut backs. Mackay spent a fair but, but we got most of it back on the sales of Medel, Caulker, Mutch and Theophile-Catherine. Ole bought some decent players but also a few duff ones too. Warnock was just allow to spend and spend, but unfortunately it has come back to haunt us financially with players like Smithies, Bacuna, Flint, Tomlin etc on big wages.
The club have trusted the manager and backed him on numerous occasions. Maybe a little more nous off the field would have stopped some of these signings. No one could have seen Covid-19 coming along and scuppering the finances of most clubs except the elite PL ones.
Had the club not backed the manager we'd now be here, in mid -table in the Championship bemoaning the fact that the club never backed the manager.
I don't think we are any different to other clubs in the this division, a lot have gambled and lost out, SheffW and Sunderland went down, Derby are in a mess, so we have performed better than some.
However we are now left with a squad paper thin on experience and relying on youngsters like Bagan, McGuinness, Brown, Sang, Bowen, Harris, Colwill, Evans and others to fill up the places. Wait until next summer when I expect Smithies, Pack, Flint , Morrison, Murphy , Tomlin, Vassell and others to all leave and we will make huge savings on wages and be back to recruiting sensibly again, paying lowish fees and average wages to anybody willing to come to us.
Sorry, but what suggests we will recruit sensibly and on low wages?
Not having a go but at what time during Tan being here have we done that?
It either goes from one extreme to the other with regards to fees paid out but the wages always seem to be a lot higher than at other clubs. So high that we can't move many on, that is still going on now.
I very much doubt Tan is making all the decisions. I think the club is well down on his list of thoughts most days.
And that is probably part of the issue here.
In Tan's absence that would probably fall to Dalman and Choo wouldn't you say? Two men put in place by Tan. Any good or bad done by them should then mean that Tan is accountable.
I do agree with your take on Tan's current level of interest in the club though.
He seems disinterested in the club and the decisions made and general feeling around the place seems to reflect that.
So whats your suggestion in holding him to account?
Is this a criticism of Tan or the people he has employed or both? All I know is that if I had invested a significant proportion of my wealth in an enterprise of any description I would want total control. Prior to Tan arriving we were going absolutely nowhere with liquidation the most likely outcome. Since Tan's tenure we have appeared several times at Wembley and two stints in the Premier League where, let's face it, we had little chance of competing with the moneyball the Premier League has become. Tan has had a pretty successful reign compared with what went on before.
How would you usually hold an owner to account?
I'm saying most of the flack this club take is directed at the wrong person, the manager.
Managers will come and go but unless Tan changes the way he does things then we will be served the same random managerial appointments with no real sense or purpose and lack of direction again and again.
The board is picked by Tan, the academy employees are picked by and the funds are dictated by Tan. Signings are made with the full knowledge and backing of Tan or people he has put in place.
If you don't think that Tan is accountable for almost everything at the club then name one person in an important position here that has not been installed by Tan or left to keep their job on the say of Tan.
For me there is little difference.
If you had your investment in an enterprise and picked your own people to run it then you would be at fault if your people failed would you not?
You talk of all the success we have had. Where has that success led us? On a shoe string in the Championship and forced to play kids is all I can see.
it is what it is.
The club has made some bad decisions over the years, and you can absolutely attribute some of the blame to Tan and his direct reports.
On the other hand we've had one of the most successful periods in our history under Tan as well, so if he's to blame for the bad he's also to blame for the good.
I think over the years he's put too much faith in the wrong people. The Warnock's of this world can be very convincing that they are the solution. Especially after his initial impact, but ultimately Warnock doesn't care in the slightest what long term problems he's building up at your club.
We seem to be looking to take a longer term and more sustainable view more recently, so lets see where that takes us.
Lewj. Youve said he should be held to account. Dont throw back what happens at other clubs. This isnt Blackpool and Oyston.
This is someone apparently keeping us afloat and losing money not ripping us off.
Your want him held to account. Whats your suggestion.?
Well one way would be to ask Dalman and Choo more probing questions when they have a fan engagement. That should filter back to Tan.
One off the cuff would be to Dalman 'You suggested that you wanted the club to go in the direction of playing more entertaining football. Do you think Neil Harris provided that and is this still the intention with Mick McCarthy?'.
Sitting here and happy clapping will see us getting what we have always got. Some people seem more than happy with it though. Some even label our desperate position a rebuild.
I'm not suggesting burning the place down.
It is just that it is a bit odd slating the manager time and again without looking at the people who pick the manager.
Of course it's down to him and those he employees. Owners rarely get it right all the time if ever. You only have to look at other foreign owners who promise the world and offer nothing, wasn't it forest not so long ago.
Tan keeps us afloat, I think he's been a great owner with some obvious glaring mistakes but that's still better than a lot of owners.
How do you know all this? For many years the “insiders” on the other board have been made to look foolish by purporting to know the inner workings of the coterie of an ethnic Chinese billionaire whose business empire is as secretive as the cash takings at a Shanghai brothel. Get real. Without Tan it’s more than likely that Cardiff City would be playing in the Vanarama National League!!
Are you honestly saying our owner does not decide who he employs or choose who makes decisions at the club if he does not make them himself?
I remember reading some time ago that Tan treats the football clubs he owns as just another part of his business empire, and when he employs a manager, he just sees them as another "department manager". It would stand to reason that this being the case, he just wants somebody to run that department day to day and not go a bit leftfield and employ someone who is going to try and impose playing styles, philosophies etc.
That certainly makes sense given what has happened here.
Leftfield, in this case though, is exactly what we need.
For me the issue is who Tan lets run his club day in day out. I can't see that he'd appoint directors with no background in property/hotels/gambling etc to head up his other businesses, so why is a football club different.
He's pumped a hell of a lot of money into the club, that's for sure, but way too much has been wasted. A director of football and a chairman with a football background would make a huge difference, both on and off the pitch.
Exactly this.
I can't help thinking that his stubbornness in not admitting his mistakes in who he employs to run the club is costing him a lot more than it necessarily should.
Probably is an insider from the other board
Tan is not a perfect owner but atleast we haven't been looking over our shoulders regarding the Hmrc which we had to during previous owners reign.
It could be a lot better but it could be an hell of a lot worse.
I believe we are in safe hands so i just worry and moan about on the field problems..
Hear hear! After all, Vincent Tan is the only person in the world who is wealthy enough to back a Championship football club. Except for all of the other equally wealthy people. Or the people who are more wealthy than him. Or people who have less material wealth but are better at running football clubs.
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