Where do we go from here?

[blue lewj]

Re: Where do we go from here?

I tell you where we go from here

In an Ideal world Cardiff City would be a big club with people queuing round the block to get into the ground and others lining up to buy us

And a long list of managers dying to get a job

But we don't have any of the above so we have to stick with what we have and hope that the 9th place we are in becomes 6th

What other alternative do people think we have ?

Are you saying our only options are Mick McCarthy with Dalman and Choo pulling the strings and there is no other option outside of this?

Sorry but I can't agree in the slightest.

[Bald Barry Bastad]

Re: Where do we go from here?

What manager are you hiring to change style of play who can't be promised money to spend on squad? What manager is interested in coming to work with players Warnock left?

Simple facts are that Warnock left a squad which wasn't ready to compete for promotion (at least in a non-covid year) and work Harris and Mick have done so far suggests our squad will be far closer to that once they've gone*.

*depending on what is done at end of this season in terms of renewals and replacements. If we play hoofball next year then concerns about what we're teaching the kids are well founded.

Fans might not be inclined to stick around but that's not the best measure of how well things are going - they usually show up in number right at the end of a process when things are obviously better.

You're deluded if you think mick is going to change his style from what we've already seen this season. If he was we would have seen signs by now.

[blue lewj]

Re: Where do we go from here?

I would add that Tan and the people he surrounds himself with have picked the following succession of managers after Dave Jones -

Malky Mackay
Ole
Slade
Trollope
Warnock
Harris
McCarthy

Now even if you're being kind that is quite a random mix of managers. More bad than good for me. At least 4 failed without question for me, one is still here and even the ones that had success more than undone that further down the line and brought us back to where we were or played a part in doing.

I highlight these managerial picks as there seems no rhyme of reason to them. The only link I can make with any of them is the last 3 playing crap football.

[blue lewj]

Re: Where do we go from here?

Tan has picked the managers.
If he has been conned into buying the wrong player for inflated fees then he picked the man who did it to him. He will have also signed off the money to complete the signings before they were.

Let's argue that he was not knowledgeable enough to work out that the player was a dud or overpriced. Then he has chosen to take on those decisions and not employ somebody with the knowledge to oversee this.

We have had issues until recently with the academy not producing players. Sorry but an academy that Tan overseen for over a decade means that he has not corrected it. Nobody else.

Tan picks the manager, oversees the academy, releases funds/or not to sign players, or if he doesn't do these things is directly responsible for employing the people that do.

Tan and his cronies can point the finger all they like but they have the power to change every element of this club to their liking. The success of this football club or otherwise is totally down to them. Good, bad or ugly.

[surge]

Re: Where do we go from here?

You're deluded if you think mick is going to change his style from what we've already seen this season. If he was we would have seen signs by now.

If we split your statement up:

I) we'd have seen signs of change by now - I disagree.
II) Mick's not going to change - I'm inclined to agree but we can't say definitely until end of this season with renewals/new signings etc.

I'm not saying we shouldn't push for better but that we can't do that without some resources to work with (money, youth players coming through) and we're in the process of building up our resources.

Fans on here speaking about mistakes from between DJ leaving and Harris coming in doesn't describe our club's current situation - though does have a role in explaining why we have so few resources to build on.

Just asking for a bit more patience really so that if it goes wrong next summer posters on here haven't exhausted their moaning during a time when things are going reasonably well given our circumstances.

Enjoy the re-building process! There's actually some things within it going well.

[Bald Barry Bastad]

Re: Where do we go from here?

If we split your statement up:

I) we'd have seen signs of change by now - I disagree.
II) Mick's not going to change - I'm inclined to agree but we can't say definitely until end of this season with renewals/new signings etc.

I'm not saying we shouldn't push for better but that we can't do that without some resources to work with (money, youth players coming through) and we're in the process of building up our resources.

Fans on here speaking about mistakes from between DJ leaving and Harris coming in doesn't describe our club's current situation - though does have a role in explaining why we have so few resources to build on.

Just asking for a bit more patience really so that if it goes wrong next summer posters on here haven't exhausted their moaning during a time when things are going reasonably well given our circumstances.

Enjoy the re-building process! There's actually some things within it going well.

I admire your stance but time for patience ended last season. We needed to see changes by now. We can go all year with Mick but the style won't change much and the youngsters won't benefit. It is who he is. IMO a wasted season if we stick with him.

[blue lewj]

Re: Where do we go from here?

If we split your statement up:

I) we'd have seen signs of change by now - I disagree.
II) Mick's not going to change - I'm inclined to agree but we can't say definitely until end of this season with renewals/new signings etc.

I'm not saying we shouldn't push for better but that we can't do that without some resources to work with (money, youth players coming through) and we're in the process of building up our resources.

Fans on here speaking about mistakes from between DJ leaving and Harris coming in doesn't describe our club's current situation - though does have a role in explaining why we have so few resources to build on.

Just asking for a bit more patience really so that if it goes wrong next summer posters on here haven't exhausted their moaning during a time when things are going reasonably well given our circumstances.

Enjoy the re-building process! There's actually some things within it going well.

One man's rebuild process is another man's using kids because we have allowed our squad to become paper thin.

What parts of the rebuild process are going well for you?

[The Hooded Claw]

Re: Where do we go from here?

I tell you where we go from here

In an Ideal world Cardiff City would be a big club with people queuing round the block to get into the ground and others lining up to buy us

And a long list of managers dying to get a job

But we don't have any of the above so we have to stick with what we have and hope that the 9th place we are in becomes 6th

What other alternative do people think we have ?

Sounds like you’re saying that we should pin our hopes on getting a promotion.
Personally, I think a promotion this season would be a disaster with the squad we have.
I don’t have a problem with another season in the Championship, as long as the club is steadily building towards a good tilt at promotion and a squad that doesn’t need a complete rebuild if we actually get there. What we have is a team that would be annihilated in the Premier League, with slow older players and young, inexperienced ones.
The emphasis needs to be on good performances, entertaining the fans and genuinely building something and that is what the club appears to be failing to deliver.
I actually feel that Dalman and Choo take us for fools, as their replies to the supporters questions were full of fluff.
And before the lynch mob accuse me of being a Jack, I believe that true supporters want the best for their club and should be trying to hold the management to account for their failings.
McFootball is, however, the status quo for now.

[Rjk]

Re: Where do we go from here?

One man's rebuild process is another man's using kids because we have allowed our squad to become paper thin.

What parts of the rebuild process are going well for you?

We've removed a huge chunk of the wage bill, that was spent on players who just weren't justifying that expenditure. While our income has dropped by half we just couldn't afford to be wasting so much of it.

We've reduced the average age of the squad significantly, and we are trying to bring youngsters though. Some may not ultimately make it at this level, but they have a far better chance if we actually try.

Yes we aren't going to be in the hunt for promotion this season, and possibly not even next, but to continue as we were would have been madness. If we can stay around midtable in this division while the squad gets such an extreme overhaul then I'd consider that a big success.
That should then be a platform to push for more - if we have got rid of the premier league wages and old players, if we have developed 3 or 4 players to be good at this level then we can look to concentrate our remaining funds on the other players and have another go.
I'd say we are probably bang on schedule. Narrowly losing a game away at Coventry doesn't change that.

[blue lewj]

Re: Where do we go from here?

We've removed a huge chunk of the wage bill, that was spent on players who just weren't justifying that expenditure. While our income has dropped by half we just couldn't afford to be wasting so much of it.

We've reduced the average age of the squad significantly, and we are trying to bring youngsters though. Some may not ultimately make it at this level, but they have a far better chance if we actually try.

Yes we aren't going to be in the hunt for promotion this season, and possibly not even next, but to continue as we were would have been madness. If we can stay around midtable in this division while the squad gets such an extreme overhaul then I'd consider that a big success.
That should then be a platform to push for more - if we have got rid of the premier league wages and old players, if we have developed 3 or 4 players to be good at this level then we can look to concentrate our remaining funds on the other players and have another go.
I'd say we are probably bang on schedule. Narrowly losing a game away at Coventry doesn't change that.

So the rebuild process in short is letting players leave and replacing them with kids because we have to?

We are talking as though it will be a successful overhaul as well. It is an overhaul headed up by Mick McCarthy and the transfer committee that picked him. I shudder to think what will happen.

[Rjk]

Re: Where do we go from here?

So the rebuild process in short is letting players leave and replacing them with kids because we have to?

We are talking as though it will be a successful overhaul as well. It is an overhaul headed up by Mick McCarthy and the transfer committee that picked him. I shudder to think what will happen.

That's pretty much the only sensible plan at the moment.
Having no parachute payments AND a bunch of players on premier league wages can work in the short term if those players are good enough to take you up - but they arent.
Nobody is going to come in for a bid for a lot of these players given the wages so we are left to wait until their contracts expire.

[blue lewj]

Re: Where do we go from here?

That's pretty much the only sensible plan at the moment.
Having no parachute payments AND a bunch of players on premier league wages can work in the short term if those players are good enough to take you up - but they arent.
Nobody is going to come in for a bid for a lot of these players given the wages so we are left to wait until their contracts expire.

Is it a plan though or simply cost cutting.

As you have pointed out, the wages of many of our players are too much for this level.
Let's say we do sign more players at the end of this season do you think it is wise to then use the exact same people to negotiate these deals that offered those inflated wages previously?

Blame the managers in place at the time all we like but the managers can only advise on deals. It would be Choo and Dalman who relay the plan back back Tan where the final decision is made. And that is where there is a lack of knowledge and a problem for me. How can you oversee something and make those type of decisions with no knowledge of what a player is worth both transfer fee and wages wise. It is crazy.

[City123]

Re: Where do we go from here?

Is it a plan though or simply cost cutting.

As you have pointed out, the wages of many of our players are too much for this level.
Let's say we do sign more players at the end of this season do you think it is wise to then use the exact same people to negotiate these deals that offered those inflated wages previously?

Blame the managers in place at the time all we like but the managers can only advise on deals. It would be Choo and Dalman who relay the plan back back Tan where the final decision is made. And that is where there is a lack of knowledge and a problem for me. How can you oversee something and make those type of decisions with no knowledge of what a player is worth both transfer fee and wages wise. It is crazy.

I think it's fairly obvious this is the plan, they've maybe overdone it slightly as I don't think Kieron Evans & Sam Bowen being in the squad in September was expected but it's pretty clear that with the number of players out of contract this summer that the plan is to see if the best of the youngsters can hack it at this level and thus mean we don't have to keep someone around who is on 10x their salary

[blue lewj]

Re: Where do we go from here?

I think it's fairly obvious this is the plan, they've maybe overdone it slightly as I don't think Kieron Evans & Sam Bowen being in the squad in September was expected but it's pretty clear that with the number of players out of contract this summer that the plan is to see if the best of the youngsters can hack it at this level and thus mean we don't have to keep someone around who is on 10x their salary

I'd go even further in saying that Wintle being loaned out is a money saving option too.

It seems very odd that Wintle would be surplus to requirements, at least at the moment at his age, and Bowen would see game time.

Maybe things are a lot worse than they appear.