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Aborigines , thousands and thousands of years worshipping the sun and the earthOriginally Posted by pomeroy
American Natives , wise men hold meetings on important matters , respect is given to the land , to animals , to nature
Some bloke in pontypridd is a Christian but goes out every Saturday for a big mac and fries
It's all upside down
Agreed. And the sooner boring religion is eliminated the better.
Christ was born a Jew and He was killed because of Jewish religious people; and still people think that following Christ is religion!
No Christ, no peace - KNOW Christ, KNOW Peace
It's baffling that you think what you do isn't religion. What's the problem? Plenty of people who are religious are nice enough.Agreed. And the sooner boring religion is eliminated the better.
Christ was born a Jew and He was killed because of Jewish religious people; and still people think that following Christ is religion!
No Christ, no peace - KNOW Christ, KNOW Peace
Then you have a dogmatic belief in a figurehead and a specific text and narrative which you routinely share with others.
It is generally accepted amongst scholars that the book of John was written between 90 and 100AD, so 60 – 70 years after the death of Jesus. Why would that make the contents unreliable? Compare this to say the recollections of surviving WW2 veterans, for example D-Day survivors who are still alive over 70 years after the event and who share their memories with us so they can be recorded for posterity – would you say their recollections are unreliable? I guess you could argue that the latter can be
corroborated by newsreel footage from the time but even that would not corroborate the recollections of individual soldiers unless in the highly unlikely event that a news cameraman was right alongside each one of them at the time and captured their every word/action on film. Unfortunately we do not have the benefit of newsreels from 33AD.
I suspect you would argue that in any case the events recorded in John are completely fictitious anyway so effectively ending any further discussion. My response to that would be what would be the motive for anyone to concoct such a narrative knowing that it was not true? It was hardly likely to become a best-selling kiss and tell story which might be the case in today's society nor was it likely to lead to the subjugation of the masses to church authority at that time which is another popular theory – that was already happily being undertaken by the Jewish authorities. (I do not deny that the Christian church became all powerful much later on but that was a perversion of the gospels and the reverse of everything that Jesus stood for). The reverse in fact – Christianity would have been seen as a potential threat to the stability of the ruling religious elite hence the mass persecution of the emerging church. It would have been a risky business to be a follower of Christ in those days, with many being put to death to try to eradicate the cause. Yet it flourished and grew!
Finally even if you are convinced that the whole thing is a complete cock and bull story, what is so wrong with the underlying sentiments of Jesus as recorded in the books of John and James, like love one another as I have loved you, love your neighbour as yourself, faith without works is dead etc? No-one can argue surely that these traits are desperately needed in the world today? I don't recall Jesus required his followers to put to death anyone who does not accept the faith for example.
You ask why it was necessary for me to become a Christian to meet people and go to places where I would never have gone. Obviously you don't know me as you didn't before I became a Christian so let me enlighten you. I grew up effectively as an only child (I have one sibling who she is almost 13 years younger than me) hence I was an essential selfish person, an attitude which persevered well into adulthood. I was never an evil person but looking after No.1 was my mantra. After becoming a Christian in my late 30's all that changed and most of my life since has been a compassionate concern for other people which is what Jesus would expect from each of us. Maybe for you that came naturally but not for me. I will not go into any more details here otherwise it could be interpreted as a “look at me aren't I a great person” narcissistic diatribe.
Look after yourself and try to keep an open mind. At the end of the day it isn't down to me to evangelise or judge you, it's your choice!
Hi African Bluebird - all ok here thanks. Are you still in Uganda these days? I haven't been back there for many years now (15 or so?) but still supporting those who are where I can. It is so sad that the actions of a few have tainted the reputation of the thousands of Catholic workers who are working at the "coal face" in some of the poorest places on the planet. I think have gone full circle where my faith is concerned. It really is quite straightforward and yet very easy to get bogged down with theological "stuff" hence am really enjoying being part of a house church rather than a "church" per se - back to the Acts of Apostles days almost! All the best - keep the faith!!
Here's something I've always wondered about the whole heaven/hell thing - say I'm a believer and I know Christ and live a perfect, devout life and get into heaven. But say my partner, who I love dearly, doesn't believe and doesn't get to go to heaven. Do I then live the rest of eternity in heaven, knowing that she's spending eternity in hell or purgatory? Because to be honest I'd find that quite upsetting and not very heavenly at all. How does that work?Agreed. And the sooner boring religion is eliminated the better.
Christ was born a Jew and He was killed because of Jewish religious people; and still people think that following Christ is religion!
No Christ, no peace - KNOW Christ, KNOW Peace
She had her chance Delmi, not your fault she preferred to stay in bed on a Sunday morning whilst you were cleansing your soul. You could always borrow a virgin off a suicide bomber.
As a Christian I have wrestled with this thought myself. I can only conclude that heaven is nothing like anything we humans can conceive of i.e. will we have no memory of the time before we died and simply enjoy a peaceful, pain-free, war-free existence in some sort of spirit form? The Bible talks of a heavenly "body" and Jesus said there would be no marriages in heaven but there is some controversy over this: did he mean that people who get to heaven don't marry there or did he mean that people who were married in their earthly life don't stay married in heaven! It's one of those questions that can't be answered unfortunately. BTW I often wonder why non-believers get upset with notions of heaven and eternal life - surely it is irrelevant to them?
It's because the concept infantilizes the gullible.
Matt 18:3: And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children*, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
*Note: childlike not childish. Think on.
Describing American Natives as 'Wise Men' Such a cliche, Sludge. Must've been some dull ones as well.
There is no purgatory, the catholic church are starting to swerve that one. The ****ing hours i spent praying for people in the halfway house was such a massive waste.
Why are we so concerned what those who cannot think believe?
Just because people put loopholes in the Bible to emotionally blackmail people into staying in the religion, doesn't make it right. You may as well quote Star Wars scripts to me
I'm not sure if the last sentence is directed at me, it's just a big contradiction I've always wondered about, same as if only believers get into heaven it seems a bit unfair that say a non believer who's dedicated their lives to saving children ends up in the same place as the Yorkshire Ripper.
I've got no quarrel with you and your beliefs though, it's not for me but I think religion and faith can be a good thing in that it gives people strength in testing times and in its best form leads people to do good, it's just the violent fanatics and those that abuse and misinterpret the core messages that make it the cause of so many problems, and unfortunately historically and currently there's a lot of them
There's often an egomaniacal assurance and a supposed path to an absolute "truth" that has led us down some foolish and dangerous socio-political paths.
I haven't come across many violent fanatical Christians recently and if I did, then by default they would be Christians in name only!
Wow.
How many violent fanatics of other religions have you come across?
In over 5 decades of having an interest in matters of fauth, I can only recall members of one group taking such violent and deadly actions. Unfortunately their understanding of their own prophecies means that many of them believe that they can personally accelerate the end-time events by bringing about such world instability.
In contrast those who read and understand Biblical Prophecy know that God is alone in control of all such future events and their timing on the world stage.
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ohhh you mean the catholics...oh sorry the jews...opps the protastants..errr? muslims....sunni or shia? i could go on forever
Truthpaste has beaten me to it. I suspect you know very well which religion is the elephant in the room here! Look no further than Afghanistan or even Pakistan where Christians are regularly murdered (some burned alive), churches and whole villages burned because someone "blasphemed". Because these events don't take place in the west they rarely make the news.
It's getting to be a bit of a squeeze in this room with that elephant and the Catholic priest/child abuse on a massive scale shaped one next to it
The facts are that:
1. The first five books of the Bible and which represent the Torah were supposedly written by Moses.
2. There is no evidence that Moses existed
3. There is no evidence that if he existed that he spoke to 'God'
4. There is no evidence of such dialogue being recorded.
The whole concept of Abrahamist religions are based on the supposed works of one mythical person and there is nothing resembling an audit trail of any description. However, catch people when they are young, indoctrinate them and they swallow it whole. And most believers have little idea how so-called Holy Books have been compiled, sifted, edited and changed through the centuries. And that's precisely why religions are subject to endless and deep schisms even under the Abrahamist umbrella.
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