People calling for Tan to go

[pomeroy]

It's not worth a cockle.

So essentially you are saying that CCFC is worth nothing which effectively means you are suggesting that Tan takes a hit in excess of £100million on selling the club even if someone was prepared to buy it!!

[Dorcus]

So essentially you are saying that CCFC is worth nothing which effectively means you are suggesting that Tan takes a hit in excess of £100million on selling the club even if someone was prepared to buy it!!

I'm not sure it should concern is just how much the guy is prepared to.lose on his investment but obviously the lower the asking price the more likely it is we shall attract potential new owners.

However, as pointed out earlier, how much longer can he continue to fight for his investment amid growing losses. There's a point where no sensible moneyman will throw more good money after bad.

[dembethewarrior]

I'm not sure it should concern is just how much the guy is prepared to.lose on his investment but obviously the lower the asking price the more likely it is we shall attract potential new owners.

However, as pointed out earlier, how much longer can he continue to fight for his investment amid growing losses. There's a point where no sensible moneyman will throw more good money after bad.

I didn't want to get involved in it all, but the thing to me is it shouldn't matter how much he's put in when thinking of what he wants to get back, he may have paid x amount and put y amount in but things go up and down in value. I don't care if Gloria's house was worth 100k and she's spent 23 on improvements, that's her issue she's invested 123k, if the house is worth 56 I'm paying 56.

[Harry Paget Flashman]

I didn't want to get involved in it all, but the thing to me is it shouldn't matter how much he's put in when thinking of what he wants to get back, he may have paid x amount and put y amount in but things go up and down in value. I don't care if Gloria's house was worth 100k and she's spent 23 on improvements, that's her issue she's invested 123k, if the house is worth 56 I'm paying 56.

Gloria has had a nightmare.

[dembethewarrior]

Gloria has had a nightmare.

I've not been good to her there have I

[Dorcus]

I've not been good to her there have I

Whatever did Gloria do to deserve this lol

[dembethewarrior]

Whatever did Gloria do to deserve this lol

Collect a house full of cats...


Erm I don't know I've been a bit harsh there haven't I.

[pomeroy]

I didn't want to get involved in it all, but the thing to me is it shouldn't matter how much he's put in when thinking of what he wants to get back, he may have paid x amount and put y amount in but things go up and down in value. I don't care if Gloria's house was worth 100k and she's spent 23 on improvements, that's her issue she's invested 123k, if the house is worth 56 I'm paying 56.

That depends of course whether Gloria will sell it for 56 or if she is in hock to a lender for a lot more whether the lender will allow her to sell it. There are lots of flats in Cardiff Bay which, due mainly to cladding issues, are unsaleable because of , in the main, negative equity. Here we have a multi millionaire, or after present Asian market uplifts billionaire, viz. Tan who has sunk in excess of £125million into CCFC which, according to a long established poster, is worth zilch. In the circumstances how much is Vincent prepared to lose on his investment by selling the club even if there was a buyer?. For those economic gurus calling for Tan to leave this is a question that has to be addressed. IMO Vincent will be here for a long time yet.

[dembethewarrior]

That depends of course whether Gloria will sell it for 56 or if she is in hock to a lender for a lot more whether the lender will allow her to sell it. There are lots of flats in Cardiff Bay which, due mainly to cladding issues, are unsaleable because of , in the main, negative equity. Here we have a multi millionaire, or after present Asian market uplifts billionaire, viz. Tan who has sunk in excess of £125million into CCFC which, according to a long established poster, is worth zilch. In the circumstances how much is Vincent prepared to lose on his investment by selling the club even if there was a buyer?. For those economic gurus calling for Tan to leave this is a question that has to be addressed. IMO Vincent will be here for a long time yet.

It is worth nothing if nobody is willing to compensate him that amount plus the club value.

Won't buyers look at the club value? He can obviously refuse, but nobody is paying 125 million plus club value.

[Divine Wright]

I can understand people clinging to what we've currently got (which isn't much) rather than contemplate a future which could be even worse. Who knows what's round the corner?

However, there's surely a stark reality to the direction the club is heading. It must be obvious to everyone Tan is looking to extricate himself from the club at the earliest opportunity and at a price of his choosing. When the red debacle finally ended he made it clear "no further significant investment' and for all his failings I believe him to be a man of his word.

We will never make progress under his watch. His only concern is to make the club saleable and he wants hands on control of his personnel. Therefore even if he got rid of Dalman and Choo he would only likely recruit two lookalikes. He is never going to employ football people in the interests of developing the club.

It actually might be in our interests to get relegated so that he might take a much lower bid just to get out of a failed project. Hopefully that might enable more forward thinking owners to put cash and knowledge into getting us on the right road.

This is the most pertinent post in this thread.

"When the red debacle finally ended he made it clear "no further significant investment' and for all his failings I believe him to be a man of his word."

I think the majority of the people commenting in this thread seem to have conveniently forgotten this. I remember this all too clearly. It seemed petulant and for me and just reinforced any doubts I had about this guy's character. How you can say " without red, I can't market the team in Asia and therefore have to reduce investment in the team" is about as daft an excuse as I've ever heard. We are still living with the consequences of this silliness.

I think the lack of investment in the team is probably a good thing though as we undoubtedly would have ended up owing someone or other in the long run.

I've asked a few times about where we stand on the debt and the debt to equity promises yet none of those who champion this billionaire business man seem to have much of an idea either.

Whatever the case may be, the team is going backwards (or stagnating at best). If people are happy to be a languishing championship side in exchange for Tan's money then fair enough. I don't get it personally.

[blue lewj]

It is worth nothing if nobody is willing to compensate him that amount plus the club value.

Won't buyers look at the club value? He can obviously refuse, but nobody is paying 125 million plus club value.

Of course they're not. They will pay what the club is worth and no more.

If VT has spent money on the club and run it badly then that is his mistake. If he is holding out for what he has spent on the club plus what he has pumped in he will be waiting a long time.

[Divine Wright]

I think I'm right in saying that CCFC has made a profit just once or maybe twice during Tan's reign, and each time the profit was relatively small, especially by comparison to the losses.

The club has decided to cut its losses on players often enough in recent years. I don't think it would be at all idiotic if Tan was to decide to cut his losses on the club. On the contrary, unless he's going to dramatically change the way he runs the club, it would seem the sensible thing to do.

It makes sense to do what he's doing in a short term business sense.

To do that and maintain progress on the pitch (which you ultimately need in order to guarantee income streams) you have to be very astute . You need a DOF. You need a manager who understands working with a DOF and isn't asking for millions. You need to have great scouting/recruitment and a great a academy.

If you don't have those things and rely on the Warnocks of this world, you are likely to be a yo-yo club at best. At worst you're going to be left behind by the teams in the championship that are starting to run their clubs like premier league sides.

Tan is able to make decisions regarding cutting costs but he doesn't understand the way the industry is progressing. The economic margins he has are being poorly invested and will ultimately result in an ever decreasing income (ticket sales, merch, sponsorship) . He'll then have to cut cost again until the playing side is not up to the standard of this league.

[Divine Wright]

How many other EFL clubs have a director of football currently ? - very few I would guess.

You're guessing.

I know that Brentford have one. QPR have improved massively since going down that route. Basically every elite side in europe has one.

I think you'd be surprised by how many clubs have a Director of Football, Sporting director or a Head of Football Operations. Most successful sides nowadays have some overlooking the long term plan of the club. If you don't , you end up with a miss-mash of players on expensive contracts.....which is exactly where we are at.

I listened to the QPR DoF speaking on the 72+ podcast. He said that QPR were basically stuffed for a while because they had a team, after going through various managers over a few seasons, that were one, costing the club a lot of money, and two, had no continuity as a group. They are only now beginning to put together a coherent plan in terms of recruitment and playing style... and it's baring fruit.

[the other bob wilson]

You're guessing.

I know that Brentford have one. QPR have improved massively since going down that route. Basically every elite side in europe has one.

I think you'd be surprised by how many clubs have a Director of Football, Sporting director or a Head of Football Operations. Most successful sides nowadays have some overlooking the long term plan of the club. If you don't , you end up with a miss-mash of players on expensive contracts.....which is exactly where we are at.

I listened to the QPR DoF speaking on the 72+ podcast. He said that QPR were basically stuffed for a while because they had a team, after going through various managers over a few seasons, that were one, costing the club a lot of money, and two, had no continuity as a group. They are only now beginning to put together a coherent plan in terms of recruitment and playing style... and it's baring fruit.

QPR had Warnock as manager as well didn’t they, what a coincidence! What an irony that the manager most responsible for our squad of highly paid, unskilled giants on long contracts with hardly any resale value could end up being the one who gets the second bloke to have failed to sort out the mess he left behind the sack.

[stan butler]

QPR had Warnock as manager as well didn’t they, what a coincidence! What an irony that the manager most responsible for our squad of highly paid, unskilled giants on long contracts with hardly any resale value could end up being the one who gets the second bloke to have failed to sort out the mess he left behind the sack.

Boro need to be careful or it will happen there to.
Starts off with bargains then brings players in for silly money and/or on silly wages and when he leaves the club finds itself in a mess.

[dml1954]

You're guessing.

I know that Brentford have one. QPR have improved massively since going down that route. Basically every elite side in europe has one.

I think you'd be surprised by how many clubs have a Director of Football, Sporting director or a Head of Football Operations. Most successful sides nowadays have some overlooking the long term plan of the club. If you don't , you end up with a miss-mash of players on expensive contracts.....which is exactly where we are at.

I listened to the QPR DoF speaking on the 72+ podcast. He said that QPR were basically stuffed for a while because they had a team, after going through various managers over a few seasons, that were one, costing the club a lot of money, and two, had no continuity as a group. They are only now beginning to put together a coherent plan in terms of recruitment and playing style... and it's baring fruit.

1). I said that I was guessing.
2). I did say the EFL.
3).. You have named one current Championship club that has a DoF and one that is now in the Prem. Hardly a massive number.
4).. We are not an elite club. Apart from the top teams in the Prem, having a DoF is a costly extra and certainly beyond the finances of most Championship and lower league clubs, especially in the current climate.

Let me know if you find any other clubs in the EFL with a DoF. I am not against the idea of having one by the way but believe it is beyond our current means and that of most other clubs in our position.

[The Lone Gunman]

1)Let me know if you find any other clubs in the EFL with a DoF.

Bournemouth have a Technical Director (Richard Francis) and an Assistant Technical Director (Simon Francis, appointed very recently). Francis worked alongside Eddie Howe for a number of years.

Coventry have a Head of Football Operations (Mike Reid).

Huddersfield have a Head of Football Operations (Leigh Bromby).

Nottingham Forest have a Director of Football (Kyriakos Dourekas).

Middlesbrough have a Head of Football (Kieran Scott - they poached him from Norwich in August).

Swansea City have Sporting Director (Mark Allen, also appointed in August) who is responsible for all of their football operations.

Peterborough have a long-standing Director of Football - good old Barry Fry.

[dembethewarrior]

Bournemouth have a Technical Director (Richard Francis) and an Assistant Technical Director (Simon Francis, appointed very recently). Francis worked alongside Eddie Howe for a number of years.

Coventry have a Head of Football Operations (Mike Reid).

Huddersfield have a Head of Football Operations (Leigh Bromby).

Nottingham Forest have a Director of Football (Kyriakos Dourekas).

Middlesbrough have a Head of Football (Kieran Scott - they poached him from Norwich in August).

Swansea City have Sporting Director (Mark Allen, also appointed in August) who is responsible for all of their football operations.

Peterborough have a long-standing Director of Football - good old Barry Fry.

I am glad you found this. I did Google it earlier on walking about in work but didn't have the time to look properly and PL results kept coming up anyway..

[Hilts]

Wow Barry Fry is still about.

[The Lone Gunman]

So essentially you are saying that CCFC is worth nothing which effectively means you are suggesting that Tan takes a hit in excess of £100million on selling the club even if someone was prepared to buy it!!

According to his trusty Chairman, Tan is losing a significant amount of money every month!!! He loses a significant amount of money at CCFC every year!!!

The chances of Tan ever turning a profit on his involvement with CCFC are miniscule. He's almost 100% guaranteed to have lost many millions of pounds by the time he severs his ties with the Bluebirds. The questions are how much money is he prepared to lose and when will he decide to sell up?

As things stand, CCFC is a failed project that has cost him a huge amount money and things are showing no signs of improving, so what will he do next? Will he continue to throw good money after bad and keep his fingers crossed that things will get better? Will he attempt to radically alter the set-up at the club in a bid to improve its future worth? Or will he seek to sell the club and cut his losses?

Option one would obviously be a ridiculous course of action. Option two would be another gamble and one which he may not be willing to take given the way in which things have worked out for him here. Considering the length of time he's owned CCFC, the amount of money he's ploughed in during that time and the fact that the club is no further forward now than it was when he took control, he may consider option three to be the most sensible. However, who knows what Vinnie is thinking as far as Cardiff City is concerned?

[The Lone Gunman]

Wow Barry Fry is still about.

There's a fella called Peter Ridsdale who works as a 'consultant' to the board at Preston North End. He's basically a director of football in all but name.

[horse_face]

Dalman and Choo are the ones who need to go. Their short termism is killing the club

[The Lone Gunman]

Dalman and Choo are the ones who need to go. Their short termism is killing the club

The problem is that both were brought into the club by Tan and are very much his men. With the notable exception of Steve Borley, Tan got rid of everyone else who was either on the board or in senior positions at the club when he took full control. It's now exclusively Tan's operation run by Tan's men, and Messrs Dalman and Choo are very much in that bracket.

[the other bob wilson]

The problem is that both were brought into the club by Tan and are very much his men. With the notable exception of Steve Borley, Tan got rid of everyone else who was either on the board or in senior positions at the club when he took full control. It's now exclusively Tan's operation run by Tan's men, and Messrs Dalman and Choo are very much in that bracket.

Presumably Messrs Tan, Dalman and Choo are intelligent men (I’ve only met Choo and he seemed pretty bright), so how long ago was it I wonder when they first thought “we’re making a right balls up of this” or don’t you think the penny’s dropped yet?

[Dorcus]

Presumably Messrs Tan, Dalman and Choo are intelligent men (I’ve only met Choo and he seemed pretty bright), so how long ago was it I wonder when they first thought “we’re making a right balls up of this” or don’t you think the penny’s dropped yet?

They're probably not unintelligent people but no doubt they enjoy the gravy train. They're probably clever enough to only tell Tan what he wants to hear. By all accounts he likes to be "involved" and doesn't brook insubordination. Dalman and Choo are on a nice little number and they likely want to keep on milking it for all it's worth.

In my opinion the only strategy within the club is to mark time until an offer acceptable to Tan is forthcoming. This was always just a vanity project coupled with a crazy idea of reaping quick rewards; sadly this was never about MCGA (Making Cardiff Great Again lol)