Christmas

[tforturton]

Anyone got any idea what I can get my mother for Christmas?

A radical idea - why not just ask her if there's anything she'd like, then buy her the very best version of it?

[truthpaste]

If it has such a positive affect on your life I don't think the realness matters at all anyway, just keep enjoying it yourself and don't worry what others think as it is one of those topics that no one will ever change their mind over.

I think if religion had that same effect on everyone no one would be as bothered by it, it's more the negative aspects of religion that have become more obvious that make people so against it.

I understand that, however what gofer blue and myself have isn't a dry, boring, negative, dated and irrelevant religion; it's vibrant, relevant and as up to date as ever relationship with a God who has never let us down (and I am saying that knowing what all genuine Christians would say, not having consulted Gofer Blue, he can either confirm this or otherwise).

So in short, we have no negative aspects, because our faith isn't IN religion.

[Croesy Blue]

I guess if your dad said he chatted to a snake or fed 5,000 people with five quid of shopping then you might question him...

[Croesy Blue]

I understand that, however what gofer blue and myself have isn't a dry, boring, negative, dated and irrelevant religion; it's vibrant, relevant and as up to date as ever relationship with a God who has never let us down (and I am saying that knowing what all genuine Christians would say, not having consulted Gofer Blue, he can either confirm this or otherwise).

So in short, we have no negative aspects, because our faith isn't IN religion.

It's also used to control vulnerable people and take advantage of them and used to judge other people's lifestyles. That's what people don't like about it.

[truthpaste]

It's also used to control vulnerable people and take advantage of them and used to judge other people's lifestyles. That's what people don't like about it.

Then why do you insist in talking at cross purposes?

This conversation is as logical as -

A: "hey would you like a couple of free tickets to Saturday's game?"

B: "why would I want to mix with a bunch of thugs? Isn't it true that some people have been injured or killed by following football?"

[Croesy Blue]

Then why do you insist in talking at cross purposes

It’s funny.

Also I think I’ve posted twice in this thread and I think for me I’ve been quite polite

[Gofer Blue]

It's also used to control vulnerable people and take advantage of them and used to judge other people's lifestyles. That's what people don't like about it.

The short answers are:

1. Christianity has nothing to do with "control" of the masses, vulnerable or otherwise. I would be more worried about Google in that regard than Christians! I think you will find Truthpaste and I both agree that we do not regard Christianity as a "religion" in that sense of the word. Religion to me is the strict observance of a set of rules like boxes to be ticked and lots of mandatory good works to be carried out before I snuff it. Not for me thanks.

2. Christians do not judge. We may have opinions but only God judges.

[truthpaste]

It’s funny.

Also I think I’ve posted twice in this thread and I think for me I’ve been quite polite

I hadn't suggested that you'd been rude, just that you'd chosen to remain unengaged from what was actually being said by making a false assumption that we were talking about dead religion, which is utterly useless as Gofer has just confirmed in his latest post.

[Baloo]

Believers believe. Non-believers don't. We have different frames of reference and different language.

I think everybody's probably put their best arguments forward in multiple threads now and I'd be amazed if anybody's beliefs, or non-beliefs, have changed one iota. The difference in outlook and values is really just too big to make much sense of the alternative view. Doesn't meant we can't just accept people think differently of course.

[blue matt]

Doesn't meant we can't just accept people think differently of course.

thats not how it works on CCMB I am afraid, if someone has a different opinion they just get shouted down again and again and again

Ref Religion, I really dont get the issue, if someone believes in something / someone and is doing you no harm, just leave them be, let them get on with what they believe or are doing, it doesn't impact your life, leave them to it

They might even be using the belief they have to do some good, the Christmas shoebox appeal is one current good thing that is going on ( yes we know that certain religious groups use them to encourage children to attend church in some countries )
Harvest festival donations is another one, that food is given to families in need, my local church has a " community food bank " you drop off anything you want to donate, the door is always open incase people need anything

[Gofer Blue]

I think everybody's probably put their best arguments forward in multiple threads now and I'd be amazed if anybody's beliefs, or non-beliefs, have changed one iota. The difference in outlook and values is really just too big to make much sense of the alternative view. Doesn't meant we can't just accept people think differently of course.

Actually I quite enjoy the cut and thrust of these threads as I am never afraid to have my faith challenged. It causes me to pause and ponder some of the points raised. The YouTube video recommended by TBG (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTllC7TbM8M) is interesting, a bit long (!) and would take an age to investigate every claim in it but quite thought provoking. For me the presenter in the video still hasn't answered my eternal question "why" apart from his suggestion that the number of Christians was declining by 100AD so it needed a boost and some new "stuff" was written to con the masses into belief. Uhm, odd that, when you know that the epistles and the gospels were written well before then. Still, a possible hypothesis I suppose.

I think he is correct in saying that Christianity then was more about politics rather than religion as far as the Romans were concerned and Christians were seen as a threat to the "system". It is no wonder there weren't many Christians around by then as probably most were in hiding (again being seen as a threat as they held "secret" meetings indoors) or had been slaughtered by Nero and his mates.

[life on mars]

Anyone got any idea what I can get my mother for Christmas?

Hearty meal surrounded by family and love oh and a lovely bottle of Warnink's Advocaat

[blue matt]

Actually I quite enjoy the cut and thrust of these threads as I am never afraid to have my faith challenged. It causes me to pause and ponder some of the points raised. The YouTube video recommended by TBG (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTllC7TbM8M) is interesting, a bit long (!) and would take an age to investigate every claim in it but quite thought provoking. For me the presenter in the video still hasn't answered my eternal question "why" apart from his suggestion that the number of Christians was declining by 100AD so it needed a boost and some new "stuff" was written to con the masses into belief. Uhm, odd that, when you know that the epistles and the gospels were written well before then. Still, a possible hypothesis I suppose.

I think he is correct in saying that Christianity then was more about politics rather than religion as far as the Romans were concerned and Christians were seen as a threat to the "system". It is no wonder there weren't many Christians around by then as probably most were in hiding (again being seen as a threat as they held "secret" meetings indoors) or had been slaughtered by Nero and his mates.

Good for you

We always used to have issues with Religious threads, they always descended into name calling and abuse
Ive followed this one and its not been too bad

as will any thread, if you feel its overstepped the mark, let us know either by IM or " report this post " ( or whatever its called )

[Gofer Blue]

They might even be using the belief they have to do some good

Show me a Christian who doesn't and I would question their Christianity! Faith without works is dead etc.

[Gofer Blue]

Good for you

We always used to have issues with Religious threads, they always descended into name calling and abuse
Ive followed this one and its not been too bad

as will any thread, if you feel its overstepped the mark, let us know either by IM or " report this post " ( or whatever its called )

Thanks. Yes, I agree, these threads often descend into puerile name calling and abuse. Sadly this inevitably reflects the character of the poster and denigrates them, rather than the intended recipient. " But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them". Matthew 15:18.

I tend not to reply to such posts anymore anyway unless there is some specific point to address.

[truthpaste]

Show me a Christian who doesn't and I would question their Christianity! Faith without works is dead etc.

I completely agree, while good works can't save anyone they are verification of our new relationship - by grace, through faith - with Christ being genuine - Lord knows there is no shortage of false christians all over the place.

Jesus said 'by their fruits shall you know them' and once again He was correct.

As we are into the advent season, have you ever seen this video? - The Star of Bethlehem.
A few of my agnostic friends have found it particularly interesting as science is naturally their lense for viewing life and purpose in general.

[jon1959]

Show me a Christian who doesn't and I would question their Christianity! Faith without works is dead etc.

Your point really needs an illustration:

Trump bible.jpeg

[Gofer Blue]

Anyone got any idea what I can get my mother for Christmas?

I came into this thread a bit late so have not replied to the OP (who has probably given up and gone away by now )

I don't know how old your mother is or her circumstances but if she is my age (70+) then I would say she wants nothing other than to know that her son still loves and cares for her.

[Gofer Blue]

Your point really needs an illustration:

Trump bible.jpeg

I said show me a Christian!

[Gofer Blue]

I completely agree, while good works can't save anyone they are verification of our new relationship - by grace, through faith - with Christ being genuine - Lord knows there is no shortage of false christians all over the place.

Jesus said 'by their fruits shall you know them' and once again He was correct.

As we are into the advent season, have you ever seen this video? - The Star of Bethlehem.
A few of my agnostic friends have found it particularly interesting as science is naturally their lense for viewing life and purpose in general.

I made a note of the link from your earlier post but have not got around to watching it yet.

[StraightOuttaCanton]

Thanks. Yes, I agree, these threads often descend into puerile name calling and abuse. Sadly this inevitably reflects the character of the poster and denigrates them, rather than the intended recipient. " But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them". Matthew 15:18.

I tend not to reply to such posts anymore anyway unless there is some specific point to address.

I’m not religious at all (if that’s even a thing?) but I do have faith in people most of the time and that quote resonates with me. I don’t always live up to it but I wish I did.

[az city]

I understand that, however what gofer blue and myself have isn't a dry, boring, negative, dated and irrelevant religion; it's vibrant, relevant and as up to date as ever relationship with a God who has never let us down (and I am saying that knowing what all genuine Christians would say, not having consulted Gofer Blue, he can either confirm this or otherwise).

So in short, we have no negative aspects, because our faith isn't IN religion.

Your "god" has never let you down? I find that very, very hard to believe. Why did she not intervene with Covid-19? Or Hitler? Or ISIS? Or Mick McCarthy? Or that fake Chelsea equalizer?

From my viewpoint your god's a complete blow-hard wastrel.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I think I'll give up on these religious 'debates'. A great many people who are indoctrinated as children will believe the most ridiculous tosh for which there is absolutely zero evidence. The following are just a miniscule proportion of the ludicrous stories that people swallow whole. The list could go on and on and rational debate is impossible with people who believe it all.

A talking snake
Virgin birth
Noah being 500 years old when he built the Ark
David presenting the foreskins of 200 victims in order to marry the king's daughter
God making a donkey have the power of speech
Creatures with wings and four faces
Moses banishing people with damaged testicles offering food at the temple
Lot offering his daughters to be raped to save two angels being raped
Lot's daughter getting their father drunk to have sex with him
Human-God hybrids
God punishing Nebuchadnezzar by making him live in the fields as a cow for 7 seasons
Jonah being rescued by living in a fish for 3 days
God sparing Moses from death after the latter's wife cuts their child's foreskin and applies the blood to Moses' feet

Oh yeah, God created a miracle by raising the ground under the feet of St David so that the crowd could see him but chose not to intervene during the holocaust. It's an insult to one's intelligence, it really is.

[The Bloop]

I think I'll give up on these religious 'debates'. A great many people who are indoctrinated as children will believe the most ridiculous tosh for which there is absolutely zero evidence. The following are just a miniscule proportion of the ludicrous stories that people swallow whole. The list could go on and on and rational debate is impossible with people who believe it all.

A talking snake
Virgin birth
Noah being 500 years old when he built the Ark
David presenting the foreskins of 200 victims in order to marry the king's daughter
God making a donkey have the power of speech
Creatures with wings and four faces
Moses banishing people with damaged testicles offering food at the temple
Lot offering his daughters to be raped to save two angels being raped
Lot's daughter getting their father drunk to have sex with him
Human-God hybrids
God punishing Nebuchadnezzar by making him live in the fields as a cow for 7 seasons
Jonah being rescued by living in a fish for 3 days
God sparing Moses from death after the latter's wife cuts their child's foreskin and applies the blood to Moses' feet

Oh yeah, God created a miracle by raising the ground under the feet of St David so that the crowd could see him but chose not to intervene during the holocaust. It's an insult to one's intelligence, it really is.

You're a wizard Harry, a wizard.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

You're a wizard Harry, a wizard.

Is that a Frank Bruno quote?