Bellamy's assessment of our bright young things

[Rjk]

Re: Bellamy's assessment of our bright young things

on the subject of Matondo, after a slow ish start in Belgium, he's now scored 5 goals in his last 4 games.
Cercle Brugge have an option to make it permanent as well.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Bellamy's assessment of our bright young things

I think there's a bit of revisionism going on as I've seen it mentioned in another article that we "let Spence go" because we had Colwill coming through, whereas I'm sure I also remember reading that we offered Spence a contract and he turned it down.

Thats what I was told by someone who I’d say was in a position to know about such things - it was also said that Harry Pinchard had turned us down rather than we released him.

[Bruce Foxton]

Re: Bellamy's assessment of our bright young things

I think there's a bit of revisionism going on as I've seen it mentioned in another article that we "let Spence go" because we had Colwill coming through, whereas I'm sure I also remember reading that we offered Spence a contract and he turned it down.

That's correct-Sion Spence was offered a 1 year deal, along with Sam Bowen. This was when Neil Harris was in charge, and he basically said to Sion, I wont be using any youth players in the first team. Sion decided to try his luck elsewhere, and Sam Bowen stayed. When Bellamy was still there, towards the end of Warnock's reign, he was constantly pushing for both to be given the opportunity in the first team, he felt they were ready. Warnock wasn't interested and batted him away with, "put them in the U23's". I don't think Bellamy was a fan of U23 football at the time, so kept them with him in the U18's. I suppose its a sliding doors moment, and Sion might have been wise to stick around, but he was desperate for first team football.

[billy.ronson]

Re: Bellamy's assessment of our bright young things

Reading those articles , if he can manage his mental health issues , I would love to see him working at our club.

[City123]

Re: Bellamy's assessment of our bright young things

I think there's a bit of revisionism going on as I've seen it mentioned in another article that we "let Spence go" because we had Colwill coming through, whereas I'm sure I also remember reading that we offered Spence a contract and he turned it down.

Have people said that? That's definitely not true, we offered Spence a deal that he turned down because there was no path to the first team, Bowen almost left this summer as well I think?

The Matondo/Spence thing though was mentioned at the time, has been repeated a number of times and now Bellamy's said it. I imagine there's at least a little truth in it

[Rjk]

Re: Bellamy's assessment of our bright young things

That's correct-Sion Spence was offered a 1 year deal, along with Sam Bowen. This was when Neil Harris was in charge, and he basically said to Sion, I wont be using any youth players in the first team. Sion decided to try his luck elsewhere, and Sam Bowen stayed. When Bellamy was still there, towards the end of Warnock's reign, he was constantly pushing for both to be given the opportunity in the first team, he felt they were ready. Warnock wasn't interested and batted him away with, "put them in the U23's". I don't think Bellamy was a fan of U23 football at the time, so kept them with him in the U18's. I suppose its a sliding doors moment, and Sion might have been wise to stick around, but he was desperate for first team football.

For all McCarthy did wrong, he massively improved the pathway into the first team for youngsters, although that did start under Harris as well, as I'm sure Mark Harris and Joel Bagan were already getting game time.

Warnock was never likely to be the guy to bring through a youngster unless he was absolutely sure he could rely on them. Skipping u23 football and trying to go straight from u18s to the first team was never going to happen, possibly a bit of naivety from Bellamy, or perhaps he wanted to keep them in the u18s so he got more of the credit for their eventual emergence, rather than letting the u23s coaches get the credit.

[Bruce Foxton]

Re: Bellamy's assessment of our bright young things

Have people said that? That's definitely not true, we offered Spence a deal that he turned down because there was no path to the first team, Bowen almost left this summer as well I think?

The Matondo/Spence thing though was mentioned at the time, has been repeated a number of times and now Bellamy's said it. I imagine there's at least a little truth in it

When Spence left, it was reported by Wales Online that he had been released by the City, which made it sound like he wasn't needed or wanted by the club, when it was in fact his decision to leave.

[Bruce Foxton]

Re: Bellamy's assessment of our bright young things

For all McCarthy did wrong, he massively improved the pathway into the first team for youngsters, although that did start under Harris as well, as I'm sure Mark Harris and Joel Bagan were already getting game time.

Warnock was never likely to be the guy to bring through a youngster unless he was absolutely sure he could rely on them. Skipping u23 football and trying to go straight from u18s to the first team was never going to happen, possibly a bit of naivety from Bellamy, or perhaps he wanted to keep them in the u18s so he got more of the credit for their eventual emergence, rather than letting the u23s coaches get the credit.

Spence had played a lot of U23 football by then. Bellamy came in to oversee the pathway from academy to first team. He was in charge of the U23's, but from what i can gather wasn't a fan. I think he saw it as a backwater for youngsters, journeymen and older players coming back from injury. If you remember, Andy Legg came in solely as U23 manager/coach, and Bellamy reverted to academy coach, primarily with the U18's. I suppose by then he had seen enough of the players to know they were ready for first team football.

[Rjk]

Re: Bellamy's assessment of our bright young things

Spence had played a lot of U23 football by then. Bellamy came in to oversee the pathway from academy to first team. He was in charge of the U23's, but from what i can gather wasn't a fan. I think he saw it as a backwater for youngsters, journeymen and older players coming back from injury. If you remember, Andy Legg came in solely as U23 manager/coach, and Bellamy reverted to academy coach, primarily with the U18's. I suppose by then he had seen enough of the players to know they were ready for first team football.

I've been impressed with a lot of what I've read about and seen from Bellamy on here recently, but I can't see the logic in that. whenever I've seen the u23s it has been a much higher standard than the u18s, so it is always going to be riskier for a manager to promote someone straight from the 18s to the first team tha ln from the u23s.
also if he was in charge of the pathway, just being "not a fan" of the u23s so not putting players in there seems like it isn't addressing the issues he saw with the U23s.

[Rjk]

Re: Bellamy's assessment of our bright young things

it seems Spence is doing fairly well at Bristol Rovers. he didn't get many minutes to begin with, but has started to get a few more now, and has an impressive goals per 90 and assists per 90 record (although very few minutes so too early to read much into it yet probably)

[Bruce Foxton]

Re: Bellamy's assessment of our bright young things

I've been impressed with a lot of what I've read about and seen from Bellamy on here recently, but I can't see the logic in that. whenever I've seen the u23s it has been a much higher standard than the u18s, so it is always going to be riskier for a manager to promote someone straight from the 18s to the first team tha ln from the u23s.
also if he was in charge of the pathway, just being "not a fan" of the u23s so not putting players in there seems like it isn't addressing the issues he saw with the U23s.

I cant disagree with you, but I don't think he had anything against The City's U23's, but the U23 level in general. From what I have heard he didn't feel it was aiding their development. I believe the standard of the U23's now is much higher than it was 3-4 years ago, and it seems much more of a team than it was then-the line ups seemed to change dramatically game to game. As i said, Spence had played a number of U23 games, and I believe it was just a case of get him, and others in as Bellamy thought they were ready..

[dembethewarrior]

Re: Bellamy's assessment of our bright young things

For all McCarthy did wrong, he massively improved the pathway into the first team for youngsters, although that did start under Harris as well, as I'm sure Mark Harris and Joel Bagan were already getting game time.

Warnock was never likely to be the guy to bring through a youngster unless he was absolutely sure he could rely on them. Skipping u23 football and trying to go straight from u18s to the first team was never going to happen, possibly a bit of naivety from Bellamy, or perhaps he wanted to keep them in the u18s so he got more of the credit for their eventual emergence, rather than letting the u23s coaches get the credit.

What is it naive? In a lot of cases you're possibly bang on the money but the odd one will be good enough

[Rjk]

Re: Bellamy's assessment of our bright young things

What is it naive? In a lot of cases you're possibly bang on the money but the odd one will be good enough

Where I was coming from was possibly a bit naive to think he could persuade Warnock to take a player from the u18s straight into the first team.
I'm not sure what it would have taken though, probably a very successful loan move at a decent level, definitely not Weston Super Mare

[SOXY BOY]

Re: Bellamy's assessment of our bright young things

Sion was named as a sub at the end of the season but there was a cock up with insurance and he had to drop out.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Bellamy's assessment of our bright young things

Sion was named as a sub at the end of the season but there was a cock up with insurance and he had to drop out.

He was sixteen then and playing regularly for the Under 23s, but his career then drifted for a couple of years and he got further away from the first team at eighteen than he was at sixteen, despite scoring thirty plus goals in a season for the under 18s in between times.