voter id

[Rjk]

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/elections-bill-mps-approve-plans-to-make-voter-id-mandatory-and-abolish-transferrable-votes-for-mayors-1407490

appalling stuff this, straight out of the American right wing playbook.

[JamesWales]

Re: voter id

How do you come to that conclusion? It's the norm in western European liberal democracies.

If anything, it's straight out of that playbook.

[Rjk]

Re: voter id

How do you come to that conclusion? It's the norm in western European liberal democracies.

If anything, it's straight out of that playbook.

because the discourse around it is practically the same as in the states, where the right are bringing it in under the pretence of counteracting a miniscule problem with voter fraud, when the real reason is to dissuade certain groups of people from voting.
I'm amazed there aren't any Tory MPs with the integrity to speak out against this.

it's clearly not the same as some European countries that have various long standing I'd requirements. i.e. in France everyone must carry ID at all times anyway, so it doesn't have any bias effect at the polling station

[Doucas]

Re: voter id

How do you come to that conclusion? It's the norm in western European liberal democracies.

If anything, it's straight out of that playbook.

If it makes society worse you can guarantee that jameswales will find a way to justify it.

[JamesWales]

Re: voter id

If it makes society worse you can guarantee that jameswales will find a way to justify it.

Another ad hominem attack, and it's not even 10.30am.

As usual, you have taken a rather radical reaction to this. Scandinavian countries are generally considered the best societies om earth, they require voter ID.

It will have absolutely no impact on society and if anything will booster faith in democracy. As standard, you take an extreme position on it, whipped up no doubt by things you've read online that are designed to make you angry.

[life on mars]

Re: voter id

Never understood the opposition to this ??

[jon1959]

Re: voter id

Never understood the opposition to this ??

That is no surprise.

[JamesWales]

Re: voter id

That is no surprise.

In all seriousness though, whilst I get the issue in principle, do you have any evidence from the multitude of countries (incl Northern Ireland) that require ID to vote that justifies the rather strongly worded fears people have?

[jon1959]

Re: voter id

In all seriousness though, whilst I get the issue in principle, do you have any evidence from the multitude of countries (incl Northern Ireland) that require ID to vote that justifies the rather strongly worded fears people have?

There is a lot of evidence that the requirement (especially where ID cards are not already part of normal civil society) has the effect - and the intention (!) - of suppressing electoral participation from particular groups. Those groups are normally poorer, blacker and more marginalised, and less likely to support parties that most benefit the rich, powerful establishment. We should be taking down barriers to voting, not putting more up.

https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/campaigns/upgrading-our-democracy/voter-id/

[Swiss Peter]

Re: voter id

There is a lot of evidence that the requirement (especially where ID cards are not already part of normal civil society) has the effect - and the intention (!) - of suppressing electoral participation from particular groups. Those groups are normally poorer, blacker and more marginalised, and less likely to support parties that most benefit the rich, powerful establishment. We should be taking down barriers to voting, not putting more up.

https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/...racy/voter-id/

If there were evidence of electoral fraud on a significant scale you might understand it. But there isn't.

[Rjk]

Re: voter id

Good to see David Davies speaking out against this. I'm sure he's not bee "whipped up by things he's read online to make him angry about it"

[JamesWales]

Re: voter id

Good to see David Davies speaking out against this. I'm sure he's not bee "whipped up by things he's read online to make him angry about it"

Yeah he has a very long standing opposition to all forms of ID cards I believe. I'm not saying people have to support it, but this talk of wicked governments trying to steal votes from poor and non-white people etc. That's just false, and dangerously false stuff really.

FWIW, I think it would need to be trialled first and then initially should be paper ID being acceptable. I see no issue with someone bringing a form of address or something. I've worked many elections and if anything it speeds things up when people bring the letters with them. I just dont think we have much to lose.

[Doucas]

Re: voter id

Yeah he has a very long standing opposition to all forms of ID cards I believe. I'm not saying people have to support it, but this talk of wicked governments trying to steal votes from poor and non-white people etc. That's just false, and dangerously false stuff really.

FWIW, I think it would need to be trialled first and then initially should be paper ID being acceptable. I see no issue with someone bringing a form of address or something. I've worked many elections and if anything it speeds things up when people bring the letters with them. I just dont think we have much to lose.

It doesn't matter if they're not trying to steal votes (even though they are), this is the result.

Many people can't afford ID or don't have any, what's your plan to get around that?

[JamesWales]

Re: voter id

It doesn't matter if they're not trying to steal votes (even though they are), this is the result.

Many people can't afford ID or don't have any, what's your plan to get around that?

Free ID?

In terms of stealing votes, I note a lot of people apoplectic about this ID proposal were happy to endorse a second referendum on EU membership, so I shall take their democratic concerns with a pinch of salt.

[jon1959]

Re: voter id

Free ID?

In terms of stealing votes, I note a lot of people apoplectic about this ID proposal were happy to endorse a second referendum on EU membership, so I shall take their democratic concerns with a pinch of salt.

Free ID would be a small step to answering the main concerns - but just a small one.

On your second point, the only person I remember advocating a second Brexit vote solely on the grounds that he wanted a second go was Nigel Farage - on the night of the referendum when he thought his side had lost. All other calls for a second referendum were on the basis that the first one was a blind vote on the principle; a second vote would be on the detailed 'offer'. I didn't (and don't) support a second referendum, but I do like a bit of honesty in how the case is presented.

Basically you're putting up calls for more democracy as a counter argument to prospective moves that would suppress votes in an election (or referendum). Given that I will take all your comments with more than a pinch of salt!