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BBC 4 Podcast - The Coming Storm

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  • #16
    Re: BBC 4 Podcast - The Coming Storm

    Originally posted by az city View Post
    Jimbo, it's you who needs to open your eyes to the reality around you. If you really can't acknowledge the rise of rightwing populism and the damage it's doing then I feel for you. But don't go having a pop at everyone else who can.
    I'm not having a pop old pal.

    On the contrary if anything, I am saying it's perhaps a bigger issue (in Uganda) than suggested, which was that a few missionaries are pro-Trump, when actually the guy who won the election last year with a landslide has made pro-Trump statements. Perhaps Ugandans like him? And perhaps most of the people that "Are amazing" can both like the president's statements and also be nice people? It's almost as if people and politics aren't black and white.

    That said, I think there is a touch of the 'Emmanuel Goldsteins' about the rise of these figures who are often created to strike fear into liberals hearts.

    It's true that there is a thread you could use to link Bolsonaro to Trump to Johnson to Orban to Putin if you so wished. But it ignores enormous differences between them all and is frankly fantasy, not least because Johnson is socially liberal and a world away from someone like Bolsonaro in Brazil.

    What is more, Trump lost the last election, Bolsonaro is well behind in the polls and Poland and Hungary's leaders, whilst very popular are now receiving a much more co-ordinated opposition.

    Further to that, a thread could equally be made linking Biden to Trudeau to Pedro Sanchez to Macron to Olaf Scholz to Jacinda Adern.

    The reality is that in a world of 200 odd countries, they are all moving in their own directions, some leftward, some rightward, and generally speaking that is no bad thing.

    Perhaps the 1990s and 2000's aside, previous decades were FAR more concerning when great swathes of the world were disappearing into authoritarian misery on both political extremes.

    A lot of this is moral panic for middle class liberals to shit their pants over. Whether it's Corbyn stealing your pension or Johnson being a fascist..it's mainly bollocks. The reality of governance see's to that.

    In the meantime, websites have stories that need sharing and ad revenues that rely on clicks.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: BBC 4 Podcast - The Coming Storm

      Thanks for the recommendation. Listened to the first couple of episodes and am finding it fascinating.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: BBC 4 Podcast - The Coming Storm

        Originally posted by JamesWales View Post


        It's like ten thousand spoons, when all you need is a knife..
        ...So you're saying you met the man of your dreams, but then met his beautiful wife?

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: BBC 4 Podcast - The Coming Storm

          The qanon stuff is mad beyond belief, will have a listen to this. Always find it hard to tell who actually believes it, and who is just going along with it because they want to attract the qanon supporters.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: BBC 4 Podcast - The Coming Storm

            Originally posted by AfricanBluebird View Post
            True Doucas
            Living in Uganda, there is such an eclectic mix of people so you hear all kinds of views and get into some of the strangest concersations.

            Most people are amazing.

            But 'conservative evangelical missionaries' are the strangest bunch - batshit crazy for Trump - they literally worship him. Also, those British people who identify themselves as 'expats' are also strange. Usually Tory Brexiteers who see no irony in them being migrants here, but hate immigration to the UK. They almost have ZERO Ugandan friends and hang around with each other in a weird toxic little Tory bubble.
            Why a tory bubble and not just an ex pat bubble?

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: BBC 4 Podcast - The Coming Storm

              Originally posted by JamesWales View Post
              I'm not having a pop old pal.

              On the contrary if anything, I am saying it's perhaps a bigger issue (in Uganda) than suggested, which was that a few missionaries are pro-Trump, when actually the guy who won the election last year with a landslide has made pro-Trump statements. Perhaps Ugandans like him? And perhaps most of the people that "Are amazing" can both like the president's statements and also be nice people? It's almost as if people and politics aren't black and white.

              That said, I think there is a touch of the 'Emmanuel Goldsteins' about the rise of these figures who are often created to strike fear into liberals hearts.

              It's true that there is a thread you could use to link Bolsonaro to Trump to Johnson to Orban to Putin if you so wished. But it ignores enormous differences between them all and is frankly fantasy, not least because Johnson is socially liberal and a world away from someone like Bolsonaro in Brazil.

              What is more, Trump lost the last election, Bolsonaro is well behind in the polls and Poland and Hungary's leaders, whilst very popular are now receiving a much more co-ordinated opposition.

              Further to that, a thread could equally be made linking Biden to Trudeau to Pedro Sanchez to Macron to Olaf Scholz to Jacinda Adern.

              The reality is that in a world of 200 odd countries, they are all moving in their own directions, some leftward, some rightward, and generally speaking that is no bad thing.

              Perhaps the 1990s and 2000's aside, previous decades were FAR more concerning when great swathes of the world were disappearing into authoritarian misery on both political extremes.

              A lot of this is moral panic for middle class liberals to shit their pants over. Whether it's Corbyn stealing your pension or Johnson being a fascist..it's mainly bollocks. The reality of governance see's to that.

              In the meantime, websites have stories that need sharing and ad revenues that rely on clicks.
              Interesting that many Ugandans did find Trump appealing, at first. However this is somewhat connected to Uganda being somewhat of a missionary zone for conservative evangelicals coming and spreading their strange and twisted version of their religion. Evangelical conservative Christianity is embraced here and the 'kill the gays' bill was funded by right wing evangelical nut jobs from the US 'the Elijah list' and 'Lou Engle'... Huge republicans.

              My point was this... Stupid conspiracy theories and lack of critical thinking exists within the evangelical rightwing church and sadly gets exported to Uganda.

              Uganda has enough problems of our own, without 'TV evangelists' pumping out the prosperity gospel which drives people into more poverty and unhealthy obsessions with right wing conspiracy theories.

              Also, if you take the time to listen to the podcast, there is a lot on Bill and Hilary Clinton, Bill in particular gets exposed for some of the awful stuff he did.

              However, I understand why conservatives would try to distance themselves from QANON, but sadly it has been embraced by conservatives, mainly in the US but also in the UK.

              Anyway. City won. That's far more important tonight.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: BBC 4 Podcast - The Coming Storm

                Originally posted by JamesWales View Post
                It's true that there is a thread you could use to link Bolsonaro to Trump to Johnson to Orban to Putin if you so wished. But it ignores enormous differences between them all and is frankly fantasy, not least because Johnson is socially liberal and a world away from someone like Bolsonaro in Brazil.
                I'm not really sure what you're trying to insinuate with this. Is there a cabal of far right extremists acting out some coordinated plan? Honestly that isn't the point, 'though there is some evidence of it - see Steve Bannon. The point is surely that all the characters you list have several traits in common. These are, inter alia:
                • mendacity
                • amorality
                • opportunism
                • self aggrandisement
                • malignant narcism


                They manifest as rightwing populists taking cues off each other because there is a gullible population out there that laps it up.

                Why do you think Johnson suddenly discovered the repetition of rightwing conspiracy theories as a deflection tactic? That's straight out of the Trump playbook.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: BBC 4 Podcast - The Coming Storm

                  Originally posted by az city View Post
                  Jimbo, it's you who needs to open your eyes to the reality around you. If you really can't acknowledge the rise of rightwing populism and the damage it's doing then I feel for you. But don't go having a pop at everyone else who can.
                  I acknowledge the rise in populism and put the blame squarely at the door of those that took what was once the left and dragged it way westward.

                  The left has left me.

                  It is now such of a problem that what is currently considered to be the left cannot appeal to centre left voters.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: BBC 4 Podcast - The Coming Storm

                    Originally posted by Wash DC Blue View Post
                    I acknowledge the rise in populism and put the blame squarely at the door of those that took what was once the left and dragged it way westward.

                    The left has left me.

                    It is now such of a problem that what is currently considered to be the left cannot appeal to centre left voters.
                    Is westward to the left or right? I'm confused.

                    Anyway, it's a cracking podcast. I have a mate who's doing a PhD on conspiracy theories and she thinks it's good too.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: BBC 4 Podcast - The Coming Storm

                      Originally posted by az city View Post
                      Is westward to the left or right? I'm confused.

                      Anyway, it's a cracking podcast. I have a mate who's doing a PhD on conspiracy theories and she thinks it's good too.
                      Westward way left.
                      You must be familiar with Bill Maher?
                      I align myself with most of his views, I have for a long time.

                      How The Left was Lost

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: BBC 4 Podcast - The Coming Storm

                        It's coming up to 4pm here and I walk my doggy, Smuggers, every day at 4. So, this thread reminded me of a couple and their doggy, Fred, I sometimes meet and talk to.

                        They're Republican Trumpers but kind of endearingly daft in what they come out with. One day they told me they didn't like Biden because he is a pedophile (apologies for American spellings). I mockingly laughed but then they told me they had evidence - he apparently sniffs people's hair when close to them and this is a sign of a pedophile. To me that's just guano crazy. Anyone else ever heard this?

                        P.S. On reflection, Fred would probably be the more rational of three of them if he could talk.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: BBC 4 Podcast - The Coming Storm

                          Originally posted by az city View Post
                          It's coming up to 4pm here and I walk my doggy, Smuggers, every day at 4. So, this thread reminded me of a couple and their doggy, Fred, I sometimes meet and talk to.

                          They're Republican Trumpers but kind of endearingly daft in what they come out with. One day they told me they didn't like Biden because he is a pedophile (apologies for American spellings). I mockingly laughed but then they told me they had evidence - he apparently sniffs people's hair when close to them and this is a sign of a pedophile. To me that's just guano crazy. Anyone else ever heard this?

                          P.S. On reflection, Fred would probably be the more rational of three of them if he could talk.
                          They sound bonkers Mate.
                          I know plenty of people who come out with this shite.
                          It has to be stressed though that there are as many clowns polar opposite to them.

                          I think that the horseshoe principle of political opinion is right when it comes down to the most vociferous, regardless of which way their political allegiances lie.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: BBC 4 Podcast - The Coming Storm

                            Originally posted by Wash DC Blue View Post
                            They sound bonkers Mate.
                            I know plenty of people who come out with this shite.
                            It has to be stressed though that there are as many clowns polar opposite to them.

                            I think that the horseshoe principle of political opinion is right when it comes down to the most vociferous, regardless of which way their political allegiances lie.
                            I don't really know anything of leftwing conspiracy theories. There's a large culture around this too?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: BBC 4 Podcast - The Coming Storm

                              Originally posted by az city View Post
                              I'm not really sure what you're trying to insinuate with this. Is there a cabal of far right extremists acting out some coordinated plan? Honestly that isn't the point, 'though there is some evidence of it - see Steve Bannon. The point is surely that all the characters you list have several traits in common. These are, inter alia:
                              • mendacity
                              • amorality
                              • opportunism
                              • self aggrandisement
                              • malignant narcism


                              They manifest as rightwing populists taking cues off each other because there is a gullible population out there that laps it up.

                              Why do you think Johnson suddenly discovered the repetition of rightwing conspiracy theories as a deflection tactic? That's straight out of the Trump playbook.
                              This thread is interesting as it shows the desperation of people trying to justify the way they feel about right wing populists. You are completely correct about the character of those who have been listed - politics is important to the extent that they are all right of centre, but it’s more to do with the type of person they are - entirely self serving and cynical.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: BBC 4 Podcast - The Coming Storm

                                Just finished listening to the seventh, and last, episode. I found it riveting stuff which had me regularly changing my mind as to whether those believing in the gathering storm were deserving of contempt or pity, but in the end, I found myself agreeing with the conclusion reached by the narrator.

                                Comment

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