Reply With QuoteYou say 40 million people have had it (and over 170k have died)? What are the comparable figures for the 16 diseases currently listed as HCIDs, (Ebola, SARS, MERS, monkeypox, plague and four severe strains of bird flu)?Originally Posted by TWGL1
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This is a great point, even with face masks etc etc, it still spread, the only way to stop C19 is to have a full lockdown, as soon as things slightly opened up, the virus spread, look at Australia for proof of that, lockdown for long periods of time, as soon as they opened up, it spread ( they just brought themselves time and get jabs in arms )
We have all had the opportunity for the 3 jabs, this is as good as it gets, but its your choice, if you feel happy and safer staying in, stay in
You say 40 million people have had it (and over 170k have died)? What are the comparable figures for the 16 diseases currently listed as HCIDs, (Ebola, SARS, MERS, monkeypox, plague and four severe strains of bird flu)?
In fairness, that’s simply because you’re an idiot.
This is the problem though TOBW, what you say isn't correct. You may want them to be politically, but they aren't. I'll repeat them again:I agreed back in March 2020 and was determined not to be too critical of the UK Government, but that was before the "libertarian" Government we have started making decisions based on party politics rather than public health and, as yesterday showed, they still are doing that.
The statistics are damning for the UK compared to nearly all other Western European democracies and there are still hundreds of people dying every day from Covid and yet we get rubbish about cancer deaths from Government apologists
Deaths from cancer are, nearly always, unavoidable, deaths from any contagious disease are not, your chances of not catching a potentially deadly virus are lessened by taking realistic precautions, but the "it's time to move on" mob talk as if anyone advocating that wants us back in a full lockdown and all they're doing really is showing their I'm all right Jack attitude.
On deaths; as of yesterday the UK is 31st in the world per capita for Covid deaths. We are 23rd in Europe. And it's worth noting that Covid probably hit us sooner than most in Europe
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...BR~CAN~DEU~FRA
On vaccines; whilst the vaccine rollout is harder to come to a definitive opinion on, it is generally recognised that in terms of development and roll out we are world-leading. Others have caught up, but as is generally recognised, speed matters in these things, and the percentage of our population booster vaccinated is even now a good 10% above the EU average.
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...BR~CAN~DEU~FRA
On economic support; again, this is harder still to compare, but I see very little evidence that the UK has underperformed here. At the very least we have spent £199bn on supporting peoples jobs.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52663523
And thats not mentioning the speed of coming out of restrictions, or economic growth or numerous other factors to take into account.
No one should give the UK Govt, or the Welsh Govt, or any Govt a free pass, and ALL have made mistakes, but it's important to look at the data and come to a rounded conclusion, rather than starting with this partisan party-political position and then skew the facts to make it fit that.
as always, thanks for your razor wit reply to the discussion
The figures for the HCID’ s above as far as I know are not mass tested and any death recorded is not within 28 days of a positive test.
Let’s not forget that even before vaccination take up Covid had a 99.5% survival rate.
Always nice to see the old favourites resurfacing. I've always had a soft spot for the infectious diseases one because it sounds so convincing. Why else would the government downgrade it, right?
But the reason was that anyone infected with a virus/disease on that list (ebola, monkeypox, etc) had to go to a specific treatment centre which would have soon been overwhelmed, so downgrading it meant that ordinary hospitals could treat it.
So you don’t think that Covid has overwhelmed the NHS , and they don’t have specific Covid wards making bed capacity reduced ?
What point are you trying to make here? If it hadn't been downgraded, that would have been much worse!
Ah statistics. From the list you provided the UK is 21st in Europe (Georgia and Armenia are in Asia, this isn't UEFA), two countries listed in that are Gibraltar and San Marino. The overwhelming majority of the rest are in Eastern Europe.
Here's my statistic based on the same evidence.
Apart from Italy and Belgium, the UK has the highest number of deaths per capita of the high income countries of Western Europe and Scandanavia. It's also worth noting that Covid probably hit Italy sooner than the UK.
The point is there are far more dangerous virus in circulation which is not reported on day after day and I personally think it would have been beneficial to have released a statement saying it was downgraded at the time to reassure the public.
Let’s not forget around the same time we had T.V footage of people dropping down dead in the streets, Medical professionals walking around in Hamzut suits and fake TV footage of a studio hospital circulating etc which now appears to have been propaganda. I real dangerous HCID would not need exaggeration would it ?
Good idea, change tack. That previous one was going nowhere.
I'm afraid I have forgotten those things. Care to link them again?
Some rather spectacular cherry picking there! Note I played it with a straight bat and listed the stats, you twisted them. It's a fair point on Georgia and Armenia, although Georgia is rarely regarded as Asian.
Some great nit-picking but you made no reference to the vaccine development or roll out or economic support.
You are illustrating exactly the kind of point I was making. Even when it's spelt out in black and white people will partake in all kinds of mental gymnastics to try and make things look different to reality.
The odd thing is it is their own country they are always so desperate to talk down.
Like I said, some things have been done well and some things badly, UK has done better on some things and worse on others. Just accept that. What's so hard with accepting reality? Why the desperation to present things other than they actually are unless you have some political motivation for it?
They were in MSN , I’m sure you can locate them as quickly as me … hope that helps
You can lecture me as much as you like, but, as always, you omit to say that the huge majority of those thirty European countries you mention are old Warsaw Pact countries that, even after all of this time, have struggled to overcome the financial effects of Soviet bloc control. For me, a true like for like comparison is with the countries we have most in common with economically and politically. That’s why I specifically mentioned Western European democracies and the last time I looked only Belgium, Italy and Gibraltar had a worse death rate than us.
I’ve never been critical of the Government when it comes to vaccine roll outs (although there does seem to be a Johnson factor now which is leading to falls in the numbers being jabbed), it has been the big success for the Government in the past two years.
As for financial support, I would expect the same, if not more, if there had been a Labour or any other non Tory Government in power at the time - it was their duty to provide that sort of support in the gravest national crisis of most of our lifetimes.
Anyway, this thread was started with a specific subject in mind and I repeat that the time for Covid rules to “collapse” is not when a thousand or so people are still dying every week. I read at the start of all this whenmany of those now arguing that “we should move on” (to use Tory speak) we’re saying Covid was just a version of the flu that 20,000 deaths a year from flu was considered to be a bad year with a very strong strain of the virus. With current figures, we’re heading for 50,000 deaths a year from Covid and that’s with at least a double vaccine for the vast majority of people. I just think that we’ve fallen into the trap of “freedom days” and talking of the pandemic in the past tense before - there seems no logic in dropping all Covid rules when so many are still dying and so, in the absence of any logic, you have to look for other reasons and a PM still under severe pressure and fighting for his political life would appear to be as good a reason as any.
It may have escaped you but I was illustrating exactly the cherry picking point you were making.Some rather spectacular cherry picking there! Note I played it with a straight bat and listed the stats, you twisted them. It's a fair point on Georgia and Armenia, although Georgia is rarely regarded as Asian.
Some great nit-picking but you made no reference to the vaccine development or roll out or economic support.
You are illustrating exactly the kind of point I was making. Even when it's spelt out in black and white people will partake in all kinds of mental gymnastics to try and make things look different to reality.
The odd thing is it is their own country they are always so desperate to talk down.
Like I said, some things have been done well and some things badly, UK has done better on some things and worse on others. Just accept that. What's so hard with accepting reality? Why the desperation to present things other than they actually are unless you have some political motivation for it?
Same, when on earth was there TV footage of people dropping dead in the streets?!
The difficulty the conspiracy theorists have is that it's a really enticing subject, as juicy as you can get. Something bad has engulfed the whole world out of nowhere!
But that is also the downfall - we've all been talking about it for two years and there's not many gaps left. They're left with trying to squeeze some nonsense in - an example being Organ Morgan, who is currently on the politics board claiming that the vaccine causes two week old babies to stand on their own.
Except I didn't - I presented the evidence clearly, factually and in full. There are of course mitigating factors and stories behind every country on that list. Same as there are stories as to why Nottingham Forest are about Peterborough in the league table.
But it doesn't change the fact that the data was clearly, bluntly laid out and you then tried to manipulate it to suit your agenda.
The reality is that all countries have done well on some things and badly on others, and the UK is more or less a mid-ranker in european terms and on things like the vaccine well above that.
I think , for many posters , whatever evidence is presented , they are not going to agree whether it be for or against the restrictions/mandates
Two questions which the public should be told the answer to regarding 276 deaths yesterday;Just the two hundred and seventy six deaths today
1)How many of those died with covid and not of covid?
2)How many of those were not vaccinated?
Not true. I linked to a video of a medical professional making that claim.
For the benefit of those who don't visit the politics board, this is the 4-minute video - https://www.bitchute.com/video/9naLs8Bx4mDV/
Last edited by Organ Morgan.; 10-02-22 at 12:10. Reason: Crap spelling
I agree about the vaccinated figures, but have never really understood the of or with argument.
What is this Notts Forest nonsense got to do with it. I was simply pointing out that the statistical evidence you used (all Europe with a bit of Asia) showed a heavy skewing towards eastern european countries and a more representative comparison would be with Western European countries where the data, clearly and bluntly shows the UK is in the upper echelons of deaths per capita.
Everyone knows it's Nottm Forest, not Notts Forest. Jeez
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