Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

[JamesWales]

I just read the article and it's straight out of a 6th Form College A' level politics student's end-of-term essay. D+ (must try harder and don't use the bleeding obvious as a way of trying to construct an alternative viewpoint i.e. Iran started this whole debacle first).

More a C+ for me. But being able to disagree and debate is what sets us apart from countries like Iran (as well as not taking people hostage)

[the other bob wilson]

More a C+ for me. But being able to disagree and debate is what sets us apart from countries like Iran (as well as not taking people hostage)

You accuse Marina Hyde of “just meeting a demand for anti Government sentiment” and then produce a piece from a right wing website which it seems to me is doing exactly the same thing from the opposite standpoint as an article you like. Ms Hyde’s articles are not close to the truth you say and yet I’d say that article you deem worthy of a C+ plus was a pure opinion piece in a similar mould to what you wrote before a link to Ms Hyde’s article rubbishing viewpoints like yours and his was posted on here.

What I don’t get is how it is deemed not possible to have a viewpoint that is critical of the handling of this issue by both the Iranian and UK Governments because anyone who says a word against the latter on here gets the King of whataboutery (Life on Mars) and you putting them right as to where the real blame lies. What seems to be accepted as fact though is that the UK reneged on a substantial debt from more than forty years ago and this gave the Iranians something they could cite as a justification for their behaviour.

Labour was in power for thirteen of those years, so it’s not just a Tory thing, but the same party was in power for Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe’s time in prison and one of the five Foreign Secretary’s she referred to has admitted that she has a point when she complains about being jailed for too long.

There also seems to be general acceptance that Johnson did her few favours with his intervention when he was a particularly inept Foreign Secretary, so I would argue that Citizen’s Nephew’s D+ grading for the Spiked article should be extended to the UK Government’s performance both in terms of not paying the debt and their actions over the past six years in relation to the jailing of Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe.

[jon1959]

Ah no sorry, I didn't actually post the link to the article that I favour!
https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/0...iffes-torment/

That said, I have always enjoyed Marina Hyde's writing style. I just don't take what she says seriously and never find it that illuminating or particularly close to the truth. It's usually just meeting a demand for anti government sentiment so I don't take it that seriously. (Criticism of the govt in more neutral newspapers I take more interest in)

Other than pointing out that she was held in an Iranian prison not a British one - thanks for that - the article is just a deflection piece from the UK government's indifference or culpability for her 6 lost years. It is like many Spiked opinion pieces that are more interested in attacking what they see as liberal or woke views and promoting English nationalism, than analysing the issue in question.

Spiked and its fans must represent one of the most bizarre political journeys in recent UK history - from the Revolutionary Communist Party and Living Marxism in the 1980s (granted they always operated as a sect) to the Brexit Party and Spiked now. With Claire Fox (now Baroness Fox of Buckley thanks to a grateful Boris Johnson) as the poster girl of the movement!

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I'm not suggesting that the lady in question is guilty of any subversion or espionage in any way but I do sometimes think that we assume that our citizens incarcerated abroad are always innocent of such things.....

[AfricanBluebird]

Other than pointing out that she was held in an Iranian prison not a British one - thanks for that - the article is just a deflection piece from the UK government's indifference or culpability for her 6 lost years. It is like many Spiked opinion pieces that are more interested in attacking what they see as liberal or woke views and promoting English nationalism, than analysing the issue in question.

Spiked and its fans must represent one of the most bizarre political journeys in recent UK history - from the Revolutionary Communist Party and Living Marxism in the 1980s (granted they always operated as a sect) to the Brexit Party and Spiked now. With Claire Fox (now Baroness Fox of Buckley thanks to a grateful Boris Johnson) as the poster girl of the movement!

My reading of the press and public response to Nazanins release is that much of the conservative media can't cope with an intelligent, sophisticated and outspoken woman of colour having an opinion and able to eloquently express it, especially one which is critical of this government. It seems they want her to 'stay in her lane, hide beneath her hijab (or actually a marks and spencer's dress from their floral collection), and just be thankful she is out. Appalling.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

I just read the article and it's straight out of a 6th Form College A' level politics student's end-of-term essay. D+ (must try harder and don't use the bleeding obvious as a way of trying to construct an alternative viewpoint i.e. Iran started this whole debacle first).

I have to agree. Somebody else linked one of her articles a while ago, and that was just as incoherent and rambling. Full of mixed metaphors, sarcasm, sentences that go nowhere. She adopts countless put-downs in her articles which I'm sure she thinks are making her points stronger, yet it's a job to work out exactly what she's trying to say. Methinks her head is up her own arse.

[AfricanBluebird]

I'm not suggesting that the lady in question is guilty of any subversion or espionage in any way but I do sometimes think that we assume that our citizens incarcerated abroad are always innocent of such things.....

She wasn't guilty of anything.

But your general point is correct.

I have been involved in cases where British people (and other nationalities) have been caught doing some appalling things. One such case involved an orphanage director being arrested for child abuse and then I was threatened by his 'church' members who claimed his innocence. He eventually killed himself.

[AfricanBluebird]

I have to agree. Somebody else linked one of her articles a while ago, and that was just as incoherent and rambling. Full of mixed metaphors, sarcasm, sentences that go nowhere. She adopts countless put-downs in her articles which I'm sure she thinks are making her points stronger, yet it's a job to work out exactly what she's trying to say. Methinks her head is up her own arse.

The spiked article that JamesWales linked to is appalling and only offers a veneer of intelligence that fools only the foolish. It contains not a single credible reflection.

[AfricanBluebird]

You accuse Marina Hyde of “just meeting a demand for anti Government sentiment” and then produce a piece from a right wing website which it seems to me is doing exactly the same thing from the opposite standpoint as an article you like. Ms Hyde’s articles are not close to the truth you say and yet I’d say that article you deem worthy of a C+ plus was a pure opinion piece in a similar mould to what you wrote before a link to Ms Hyde’s article rubbishing viewpoints like yours and his was posted on here.

What I don’t get is how it is deemed not possible to have a viewpoint that is critical of the handling of this issue by both the Iranian and UK Governments because anyone who says a word against the latter on here gets the King of whataboutery (Life on Mars) and you putting them right as to where the real blame lies. What seems to be accepted as fact though is that the UK reneged on a substantial debt from more than forty years ago and this gave the Iranians something they could cite as a justification for their behaviour.

Labour was in power for thirteen of those years, so it’s not just a Tory thing, but the same party was in power for Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe’s time in prison and one of the five Foreign Secretary’s she referred to has admitted that she has a point when she complains about being jailed for too long.

There also seems to be general acceptance that Johnson did her few favours with his intervention when he was a particularly inept Foreign Secretary, so I would argue that Citizen’s Nephew’s D+ grading for the Spiked article should be extended to the UK Government’s performance both in terms of not paying the debt and their actions over the past six years in relation to the jailing of Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe.

Indeed.

[the other bob wilson]

I have to agree. Somebody else linked one of her articles a while ago, and that was just as incoherent and rambling. Full of mixed metaphors, sarcasm, sentences that go nowhere. She adopts countless put-downs in her articles which I'm sure she thinks are making her points stronger, yet it's a job to work out exactly what she's trying to say. Methinks her head is up her own arse.

I'm 99 per cent sure he was talking about the Spiked article, not Marina Hyde's.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

More a C+ for me. But being able to disagree and debate is what sets us apart from countries like Iran (as well as not taking people hostage)

To be fair we have invaded and colonised lots of countries

I am not sure Iran has

[the other bob wilson]

Indeed.

Thank you, but your message of 9.53 really encapsulated the issue I believe.

[splott parker]

I'm not suggesting that the lady in question is guilty of any subversion or espionage in any way but I do sometimes think that we assume that our citizens incarcerated abroad are always innocent of such things.....

True that, it’s like the way us of a certain age were brought up through TV Westerns & Hollywood that cowboys = good & indians = evil.

[JamesWales]

You accuse Marina Hyde of “just meeting a demand for anti Government sentiment” and then produce a piece from a right wing website which it seems to me is doing exactly the same thing from the opposite standpoint as an article you like. Ms Hyde’s articles are not close to the truth you say and yet I’d say that article you deem worthy of a C+ plus was a pure opinion piece in a similar mould to what you wrote before a link to Ms Hyde’s article rubbishing viewpoints like yours and his was posted on here.

What I don’t get is how it is deemed not possible to have a viewpoint that is critical of the handling of this issue by both the Iranian and UK Governments because anyone who says a word against the latter on here gets the King of whataboutery (Life on Mars) and you putting them right as to where the real blame lies. What seems to be accepted as fact though is that the UK reneged on a substantial debt from more than forty years ago and this gave the Iranians something they could cite as a justification for their behaviour.

Labour was in power for thirteen of those years, so it’s not just a Tory thing, but the same party was in power for Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe’s time in prison and one of the five Foreign Secretary’s she referred to has admitted that she has a point when she complains about being jailed for too long.

There also seems to be general acceptance that Johnson did her few favours with his intervention when he was a particularly inept Foreign Secretary, so I would argue that Citizen’s Nephew’s D+ grading for the Spiked article should be extended to the UK Government’s performance both in terms of not paying the debt and their actions over the past six years in relation to the jailing of Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe.

Jesus.

1 / Spiked isn't a right wing website. It's evolved from Marxism Today. It has evolved I'll grant you, and it's raison d'etre is sometimes to play devils advocate. Nonetheless it offers a lot of diverse opinions. I disagree with a hell of a lot of whats on there. (which is health) not this article though

2 / He's not defending the UK government, he's clarifying that it wasnt the UK that locked her up on trumped up charges etc and kept her incarcerated. Ultimately, we got her released. That doesn't always happen. There are countless foreign nationals of many countries locked up around the world. Maybe it should have happened earlier, but I don't see why the current foreign secretary and her staff are to blame for that? Any government policy on any topic could always have been implemented sooner than it was.

3 / I think it's fair to blame previous foreign secretaries. Clearly they failed. And clearly the current one didn't. THats the reality.

4 / Maybe we should have paid the debt sooner, but remember, this is based on sanctions imposed against a pretty bad authoritarian state. I should imagine we owe Russia a debt at the moment. Does this mean it's fair game for them to capture any British tourist?

[JamesWales]

My reading of the press and public response to Nazanins release is that much of the conservative media can't cope with an intelligent, sophisticated and outspoken woman of colour having an opinion and able to eloquently express it, especially one which is critical of this government. It seems they want her to 'stay in her lane, hide beneath her hijab (or actually a marks and spencer's dress from their floral collection), and just be thankful she is out. Appalling.

Oh give us a break. I don't even believe you think this at all - it's just a lazy trope. The same could be said of any criticism of Liz Truss (a woman) or Priti Patel (A woman of colour). You may be obsessed with peoples skin colours. Most people aren't.

[JamesWales]

What I think is more interesting to consider is why we didn't pay this debt before we did?

One article - by the same guy as previously - links it all to geopolitics.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/0...liffe-is-free/

This one in the guardian says it was due to sanctions on bank transfers
https://www.theguardian.com/news/202...t-of-400m-debt

SOme on twitter (hmm) argue it's because we were in the EU
https://twitter.com/Douglas85795014/...93106781323265

I should imagine the truth is that we couldnt just write them a cheque due to sanctions and political pressure from the EU and particulaly the US especially under Trump. So we had to agree a humanitarian response of paying.

I also think theres truth that geopolitics is shifting, Iran is keener to open up now Trump has gone and we need more sources of affordable oil..

[the other bob wilson]

Jesus.

1 / Spiked isn't a right wing website. It's evolved from Marxism Today. It has evolved I'll grant you, and it's raison d'etre is sometimes to play devils advocate. Nonetheless it offers a lot of diverse opinions. I disagree with a hell of a lot of whats on there. (which is health) not this article though

2 / He's not defending the UK government, he's clarifying that it wasnt the UK that locked her up on trumped up charges etc and kept her incarcerated. Ultimately, we got her released. That doesn't always happen. There are countless foreign nationals of many countries locked up around the world. Maybe it should have happened earlier, but I don't see why the current foreign secretary and her staff are to blame for that? Any government policy on any topic could always have been implemented sooner than it was.

3 / I think it's fair to blame previous foreign secretaries. Clearly they failed. And clearly the current one didn't. THats the reality.

4 / Maybe we should have paid the debt sooner, but remember, this is based on sanctions imposed against a pretty bad authoritarian state. I should imagine we owe Russia a debt at the moment. Does this mean it's fair game for them to capture any British tourist?

The fact you don't think Spiked is right wing says a lot. I know about its history which tends to prove the theory that the far left and far right can often end up being pretty similar.

For someone who never stops telling us all how reasonable and balanced your opinions are, you do tend to lose it when your views are challenged.

[JamesWales]

The fact you don't think Spiked is right wing says a lot. I know about its history which tends to prove the theory that the far left and far right can often end up being pretty similar.

For someone who never stops telling us all how reasonable and balanced your opinions are, you do tend to lose it when your views are challenged.

With respect, I don't think calmly listing where I disagree with you is an example of losing it. To claim it's a "far right" website is utterly preposterous. Your compass needs re-configuring if you genuinely believe that.

Spiked is click-baity, it's confrontational. It challenges the prevailing left-wing orthodoxy and is very critical of traditional right-wing economics. Theres a good balance on there, although I much prefer unherd for that https://unherd.com/

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Totally agree with Jeremy Hunt , however let's not forget her captors are the real enemy .

Let's hope other dual UK /Uranium passport holders in health, charity , media jobs , with family in Iran just stay away , however painful that is , as the risk of imprisonment is high in such an awful country .

Geiger counter-revolutionaries beware!

[life on mars]

The fact you don't think Spiked is right wing says a lot. I know about its history which tends to prove the theory that the far left and far right can often end up being pretty similar.

For someone who never stops telling us all how reasonable and balanced your opinions are, you do tend to lose it when your views are challenged.

You can draw a full circle of far left and right politics and they end up at the same point fascists, Marxists ,neo socialist even Liberals in some societies .

Interesting book :

https://jonahgoldberg.com/liberal-fascism/

[JamesWales]

Geiger counter-revolutionaries beware!

😂

[Citizen's Nephew]

The fact you don't think Spiked is right wing says a lot. I know about its history which tends to prove the theory that the far left and far right can often end up being pretty similar.

For someone who never stops telling us all how reasonable and balanced your opinions are, you do tend to lose it when your views are challenged.

In fairness, it does read like you've lost your sh*t Mr J. Take a deep breath. Better still, go and get that tattoo, and if you've already had it done, get another one.

[life on mars]

😂

Not bites yet form my lovely trollers probably listening to their new super hero Rishi Sunak

[delmbox]

Not bites yet form my lovely trollers probably listening to their new super hero Rishi Sunak

pardon

[JamesWales]

In fairness, it does read like you've lost your sh*t Mr J. Take a deep breath. Better still, go and get that tattoo, and if you've already had it done, get another one.

No one loses their shit by making lists of why they disagree with TOBW. I've seen Millwall and Bristol City fans lose their shit in Cardiff city centre before. Not once did they produce a list of their objections