Reply With QuoteI do like that image though. "right then chaps, item number 1" *whilst reading from clipboard*. "You're sh*t and you know you are."Originally Posted by JamesWales
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I'm gonna add my 1%!
I do like that image though. "right then chaps, item number 1" *whilst reading from clipboard*. "You're sh*t and you know you are."
Lots of conversation leaking out about Iran resolving ongoing fuel shortages ,wholesale costs dropping ,who did Boris meet in the middle East ?
bless you
Item number 2. Please note the bushwhackers are not responsible for phone bills linked to the booking of your homeward ambulance journey
But when Jimbo offers her/his views s/he tends to confuse fact with opinion. Oh and s/he always has to have the last say. (Bet s/he pops up in two ticks...)
It seems to me there is an undercurrent of pro-establishment racist misogyny around the criticism of Nazanin's intelligent unwillingness to bend the knee. I think Marina Hyde has partially captured that.
Marina Hyde's piece was brilliant and gives a depressing commentary on a huge segment of British society these days.
Go on, I'll bite.
That tedious book based on an out of context comment from HG Wells does not make the argument that 'far left' and 'far right' end up at the same point. It is a popular view (TOBW seems to share it in another post) but in my view it is nonsense - other than an observation that people outside the establishment and outside control of state institutions (until they gain control) will use similar methods of organisation, propaganda and protest.
The only way it is not nonsense is in the sense that when 5,000 German communists were caged in Dachau on 21 March 1933, they occupied the same space as several hundred Nazi guards. Very few of those communists (or the other communists, socialists, trades unionists that followed them into the 'far right' death camps - especially but not only the Jewish ones) survived the experience of their co-existence when the two ends of your circle met.
You're in complete denial if you don't believe there is a problem with the British psyche when it comes to black and brown people - especially women. If Nazanin had been white with a traditional 'English' name and raised important points about why she was held for 6 years while her own government did nothing, apart from make it worse, there wouldn't be the same distasteful media responses. If you can't see that, then honestly you are a part of the problem.
The double standards are clear. Look at the media and Meghan Markle... astonishing.
https://www.boredpanda.com/uk-media-...mpaign=organic
Top post. Second paragraph is brilliant Jon.
I completely disagree with you and you are stirring the race pot with zero evidence whatsoever.
Two of the three most important positions in running the UK are held by people of Asian heritage, one of whom is a woman. Of course, you are allowed to criticise her without being racist, but no one is capable of criticising someone else without being racist?
Meghan Markle isn't criticised in the media because she has a black mother. No more than Diana, or Harry, or Fergie or Andrew or Charles or Camilla Parker Bowles were criticised for being white.
Theres just zero evidence to this stuff and you seem determined to create divisions based on skin colour when none exist (in this instance). Thats not to deny that some people in Britain are racists but its unhealthy to tie your obsession with it to everyone else.
You are basically saying no one can criticise anyone of colour because its racist (unless they are a Tory of course, in which case its fine!)
It's just ironic coming from you, because we've had numerous discussions, I always cite them with economic data, you literally never do.
And you always like to have the last say. I bet you pop up in two ticks..
I do have a problem with the phrase. Like it or nor Iran is also her own government and as she chose/chooses to remain an Iranian citizen she is subject to Iran's laws, whether those laws agree with our sentiments or not.
In accordance with their own laws they had every right to detain change sentence and imprison her, and in international law they do nothing wrong.
The justification for their actions and the moral argument about their view of the world are different matters.
They also had every right to completely ignore any pleas from UK to release 'it's ' citizen but they chose instead to engage with the UK Government for their own ends.
If they had said "She is Iranian and it is nothing to do with anyone else then completely ignored any attempt to discuss it there would have been nothing anyone could have done about it.
Instead of automatically blaming the government inaction or being slow why not consider that they continued to make efforts and eventually succeeded?
A better example is probably that communists and nazis both ran concentration camps that to a greater or lesser extent worked people to death based on characteristics not of their own making.
I think (with no real way to prove it) that most of the people criticising her seem to be the type who will leap to the defence of the political right whenever they perceive that anyone is criticising them, so if she was white these people would probably still be criticising her.
you are right about the double standards in general in this country, so that would surely have some effect. the treatment of Meghan Markle is a classic example
Is it though? I'm not saying she has had a good press, she hasn't. But there is no evidence it's because she is of mixed race whatsoever. There are plenty in the royal family who get an appalling press. That may not be fair, but it's not down to race. As such, criticism of Meghan Markle can occur without it being racist.
Same goes when Raheem Sterling is criticised, perhaps unfairly. But the same goes for Rooney or Graham Taylor or David Beckham, all of whom have received dreadful abuse in the press at times.
And again, who is perhaps the most criticised MP in the country aside from the PM - I'd suggest that it's Priti Patel. Why is that NOT racism under this line of thinking?
the most criticised MP is probably still Diane Abbott, and it is definitely racially motivated.
there is definitely a racial element as part of a wider class element in the criticism of Markle, the exact same things she was criticized for doing, Kate Middleton was praised for , because she fit "our" expectations of a royal family member better.
individually it's difficult to identify single actions as racially motivated - but when you look at the bigger picture the pattern is undeniable, it's an ugly part of our society and it does us no favours to pretend it isn't there.
That’s just whataboutery though isn’t it. What you say may be true to an extent (in fact I think it is), but you’re being very naive if you think that none of the criticism of Nazanin Zaghari Ratcliffe or Meghan Markle is based on the colour of their skin and/or their gender.
Let’s be honest as well, the identity of the people implying that Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe should be “more grateful” for her release in this thread hardly comes as a surprise does it, just as the identity of those defending her wouldn’t.
The stuff about Meghan Markle is so unbelievably cherry-picked. It ignores that many members of the royal family get criticised and it offers no evidence that it's racially motivated. I agree that KAte Middleton does get a very good press but thats because she barely puts a foot wrong and is, like it or not, dutiful in her role.
According to this report analysing the 2019 General Election the most abused MPs were
https://epjdatascience.springeropen....88-020-00236-9
1 -Boris Johnson
2 - Jeremy Corbyn
3 - Matt Hancock
4 - Michael Gove
5 - David Lammy
6 - Jo Swinson
7 - James Cleverly
8 - Jacob Rees Mogg
9 - Sajid Javid
10 - Diane Abbott
Source: https://epjdatascience.springeropen....236-9/tables/4
If you look at Fig10 you will see the biggest single recipient and cause of abuse is Conservatives over Brexit.
Do some people send racists tweets? Unfortunately so. Is abuse greater for non-white people or women? I don't believe so.
Is it possible to criticise Priti Patel, Dianne Abbott, Nazanin Zeghari-Ratcliffe and it not be due to racist sentiment? Abso fecking lutely.
But whataboutery in this case is evidence to prove a point.
If I am rude to someone and they say "you were rude to me because of my race", and I say, well what about these other 10 people I've been rude to, it demonstrates that I was rude, but probably not due to your race, as I was treating other people the same.
I of course would never be rude to anyone and I love you all.
As did the British government when they invented concentration camps in South Africa for people with characteristics (nationality) not of their own making. So probably not 'a better example'.
Yes, Britain invented concentration camps - although the word has gathered a significantly different meaning in time.
That doesn't change the fact that far-right and far-left can be equally repulsive and share many traits - cruelty, economic incompetence, extreme nationalism, hero worship of leaders and iconography, the need to shut down free speech etc etc etc.
The thing is though, if you look at the accounts on twitter that were having a go at NZR, then look at what else they tweet about, a great many of them tweet almost exclusively about immigrants, Muslims, BLM, Meghan, Johnson, Trump, Farage, Brexit... A definite pattern, I'd say.
So people say, but I just typed her name in and didn't see that.
You are correct though, there will be a pattern for some, but I don't think it's her ethnicity, more a general criticism and frustration at a perceived "anti british" tone.
Twitter is a curse mind. It goes both ways. Look at people who abuse Priti Patel and you'll find a big link to people going on about brexit / #toryscum / FBPE, sharing articles by the chief lord of smug James O'Brien and his royal smugness Jolyon Maugham etc.
Thankfully twitter isn't real life.
My point remains; it's perfectly possible to criticise anyone about anything without it being about their skin colour. We all know this to be true so I don't know why we pretend otherwise.
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