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In Wales?Originally Posted by Tito Fuente
Yes, because we all know how corporations are taxed accordingly.
That's a good point, actually. Instead of a windfall tax, how about increasing the tax percentage of energy companies? Good shout James. That's definitely a longer term solution.
I think it's actually worth noting, because if there weren't free buses then she wouldnt be riding them.
Nonetheless, I agree, it shouldnt be happening. The question is why, and how do we solve it.
I'll repeat what I asked lardy:
The energy price cap went up 50%. Her bills went up 500%. Ten times the rate. Now if she came to you for help, would you throw your hands in the air and blame the Prime Minister, or would you try and find out the reason for a rise that is ten times above what it should be?
Are benefits different in England?
You do know the cost of living crisis isn't just in England too, right?
I don't disagree with you. And I appreciate here we are talking about the providers not the suppliers but bear in mind numerous energy companies recently went bust, which is the cause of the increase in the standing charge for gas and electricity.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...e-on-the-agony
Glad we got there. Windfall tax to sort it out short term and larger taxation to sort out long term.
I'm willing to bet that we'll get neither and just some more shrugging from our masters who tell us there's nothing they can do.
I'm using her for my political benefit?
Who do you think I am? Don't worry, I'm not getting going to be getting any political benefit from this conversation.
I don't know why her bill went up so much. But this is one of Britain's highest profile journalists on the second leading TV channel doing an extended live interview with the PM and I would expect them to fact check their questions because of journalistic integrity. I'm afraid I'm not going to fact check it myself as I've no idea who Elsie is, so until we hear otherwise let's "take this at face value" (as you said about Elsie 20 minutes ago).
Yes, I'm just wondering, because local councils and the WG can allocate resources however they like and could choose to prioritise greater support for bills if they so wished. I understand why they don't, but they could do so.
I think that might be part of the issue here...
If the oil companies are paying their fair share of tax the suppliers can be subsidised.
Companies should not be making billions of dollars annually while working folk struggle to put the heating on.
The answer is to get them to pay for it. How can they say no?
What resources could they allocate, for example?
She has form for correcting her own mistakes, so if she's made one in this very high profile interview, I expect her to retract it.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...sanna-23403212
Until then...
Thats up to them. But Cardiff Council for example could increase council taxes at all levels and then reallocate support for those on lower incomes. Or they could rise parking prices, or shop rates etc. WG could allocate less funding to one area and concentrate it on helping the people in question.
Tough choice, no doubt, but doable.
The 'bloody windows' are open on English buses too.
Turns out good ventilation is sensible in all parts of the UK.
They have 'limited' the price cap and provided £150 to lower income homes, so that isn't nothing but I take your point.
The reality is until the market stabilises there probably is little they can do. Unfortunately wars do cause things like this.
Like I said, I'm open to the idea of a windfall tax, I can just recognise the issue comes with pros and cons, especially when considering things in the long term.
Short term decisions aren't always the best - look at Germanys short termism on nuclear. The result has been high prices and funding a despots war.
Thankfully UK gas wholesale prices are the lowest since september, which is better news.
https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/uk-natural-gas
Limited the price capOh, come on. For a lot of people the energy prices may as well be £1,000 p/m for as good as it does them.
£150 isn't nothing, you're right. It's a slap in the face and, what's that term you keep using... A short term solution.
I don't know why you're just throwing all short term solutions together as if they somehow correspond.
As we stand today there are millions of people unable to afford to live on a basic level whilst oil companies are showing unheard of profits.
I'm not sure how the outcome of taxing them more/a windfall tax could be worse than the British public literally starving and freezing - which they are doing.
Maybe they could be starving and freezing and sat uncomfortably.
I'm confused. You are angry at this ladies 500% increase, but then don't seem to recognise that the 50% price cap mitigates rises at all, recognising that the 50% price cap has also led to numerous companies going bust?Limited the price cap
£150 isn't nothing, you're right. It's a slap in the face and, what's that term you keep using... A short term solution.
I don't know why you're just throwing all short term solutions together as if they somehow correspond.
As we stand today there are millions of people unable to afford to live on a basic level whilst oil companies are showing unheard of profits.
I'm not sure how the outcome of taxing them more/a windfall tax could be worse than the British public literally starving and freezing - which they are doing.
Maybe they could be starving and freezing and sat uncomfortably.
Do you want the price cap or not? Or do you want it to be far less, in which case we wouldnt be talking about tax rises on oil companies at all, cos the good old british taxpayer would just cover it, or better still, we could borrow the difference and pass the problem onto our kids.
The fact is, unless she was on an exceptional deal at £17 a month (Which she likely was) no ones bills should have gone up 500%. If they have, then something is up and she should seek support or help. There's thousands of examples of this every day, I'm not sure what good it is landing it at the PM's door.
It just sounds to me that you aren't that interested in a genuine recognition of the issues to trying to get to the bottom of it, you just want a sensational story to bash the PM with.
Surely otherwise you would recognise a 500% increase when the cap is 50% sounds very suspicious, no?
Again, I don't necessarily disagree with you on a windfall tax, but you are no energy expert and neither am I, but i recognise that decisions need to be made in the long term as well as short term.
I'm getting the classic 'you can't increase taxes on rich people, they will leave' vibes here. Here is the reality, in a time of need, if you don't increase or enforce taxes on super wealthy people and corporations then people like Elsie (imaginary or not) get wrung out like a cloth until there isn't a drop left.
And if you constantly parrot these tropes when anybody suggests a solution that involves super wealthy people and corporations paying a bit more, then you might as well be wringing Elsie's neck yourself.
If you don't like the truth you will lean on another of the rights favourite get out clauses when they **** people over, 'stop using x for political gain'
This is a strange hill for you to choose to die on James. Without a shadow of a doubt, the 150 quid rebate and 200 quid loan is not coming close to covering the average rise in the cost of living and yet instead of acknowledging that lots of people will be struggling, your first move is to laser in on the credibility of the anecdote in the interview. Also, you couldn't be any more transparent in your fence sitting on a windfall tax if you tried. Let me guess, you lean to oppose it now but if the government decide it's a good idea then you are ready to spring back in the other direction? That's a big surprise.
As for you LOM, embarrassing once again. I am glad someone pointed out how stupid it is to 1) blame and 2) sacrifice investment into green energy. The UK could be powered by green energy and fully self-sufficient, it chooses not to be, because of people like you.
No they could not afford it as the country was in real poverty , folk would live and sleep in one or two rooms ,
and like it or not its a lot better now where you can get radiators in rooms and double glazing , inside toilets, cars etc etc .
Like it or not we have moved on as a society
and it wasn't Boris's fault
I've not chosen to die on this hill. What I'm doing is pointing out that the energy price cap is 50% and this ladies bills have supposedly risen 500% and therefore there may be something more to this story.
I also point out that slapping a windfall tax on energy producers may be a bad decision in the long run. It's not just me saying that - I am merely listening to experts in the field as opposed to those trying to win local elections on Thursday.
I have also said I am open to the idea of a windfall tax anyway - I just recognise it's no silver bullet.
What I don't buy is that somehow the fact that this womans bills have risen 500% is all down to the government. Thats an argument I would expect Labour activists to make in the run up to an election (or Tory activists if the roles were reversed) but I don't think it's conducive to a particularly interesting or enlightening debate.
The reality is if you want to solve these problems in the long run they need to be properly understood which is what we should all be trying to do, no? Just saying "slap a windfall tax on them" may not work.
The reality is war is f-ing shit. 99% of the shitness is borne by people in warzones, but it does screw over certain industries, and energy production is one of them.
We need a solution, but a windfall tax may not be the solution.
She's 80. You're saying at no point in her life she has been able to heat her whole house, or at least can't remember it. But then go on to say times have changed, we've moved on; which presumably means she should be able to?
So I'm confused by this.
I'll be less subtle with my point. When she was young, she couldn't heat her whole house. At some point in her adult life (I would imagine) she was able to. Now she's not able to.
For her, things are going backwards.
It doesn't have to be Boris's fault, but it is his job to fix it.
You do this in almost every thread, there has to be a point. Can you let the rest of us in on the secret?
Is the point, poverty only matters as an absolute and not in relative terms? Because if so, you are just advocating for larger and larger wealth inequality and we all know where that ends up.
I'm afraid the long term solution was to invest more heavily in and prioritise green energy many years ago.
You might want a long term solution but whether you chose to believe it or not, there are people who need a short term solution.
Also, I don't think anybody needs to be an 'energy industry expert' to know categorically that the big firms do not act in the interests of us. So when they announce 'record investment' and a 'commitment to Britain', forgive me for being suspicious about whether we are getting a good deal or not.
I'm angry that the costs were allowed to double. How hasn't that been clear?
Do I want a price cap or not? Yes please, but can it be one that allows the general public to afford to use their heating and run a bath without going into debt.
You seem adverse to the idea that the gargantuan corporations whose profits have soared (from BBC article today "BP's profits for the first three months of this year have more than doubled after oil and gas prices soared. The energy giant reported an underlying profit of $6.2bn (£4.9bn) compared to $2.6bn in the same period last year - ahead of expectations.")
pay a bit more so that Elsie and co. don't have to ride the bus to stay warm during the day or a mum with 3 kids doesn't have to skip meals so that one of her kids doesn't miss out.
We're living in the shit now, James. Why can companies make billions in profits while people starve? Tax them and ensure that the money goes to affordable energy. If they threaten to pull money out of green energy, tax them even more.
1 - We have invested in green energy. More than almost anywhere else - check it out. Our energy use is transformed.
2 - I compltetely understand people not short term help
3 - I agree - their priority is always to profit and shareholders, employees, customers etc. They are private businesses. It doesnt make them immoral or not part of the solution though
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