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This is your initial post.
I think if you check you'll find that the factory he worked in was in fact owned by Mr Starmer.
I read the two links you gave. Both basically mirrored an unauthorised biography of Starmer written for Lord Ashcroft, the UK/Belizean national who was Treasurer of the Tory Party. We can both read it and the most damning thing I can see is that Starmer's Dad went from a shop floor toolmaker to a sole trader. In doing so he seems to have retained and instilled into his son Socialist values despite giving him better opportunities in the process.
Now you can obviously post the proof that Starmer's Dad owned the factory he initially worked in. Conversely you can do the = no answer. And goodnight from him!! put down. The floor's yours!
So as I understand your argument.
Keir Starmer's dad was a toolmaker. Yes/No
His Dad used to work in a factory. Yes/No
He used to help his Dad. Yes/No
His Dad went self-employed. Yes/No
His Dad owned the factory. Yes
I did the last one for you, for ease. All you have to do is provide any evidence beyond Lord Ashcroft's hit piece that his Dad was some kind of factory owner. But you can't. So just look silly.
Starmer is not Jesus or Nelson Mandela. He seems a decent human being but an average politician. Why you want to look silly about him heaven only knows!
If there was any truth in what you are saying then Johnsons sycophantic mates in the media would be all over it like a rash!!
Really odd behaviour to be so defensive of a man (Johnson) who wouldn't piss on the likes of you and me if we were on fire.
Quite a few on here have gone right down the Johnson rabbit hole. I hate to break it to you guys but "Boris" ain't your mate, in fact he despises us plebeians - just go and read some of his musings in the likes of the Telegraph or Spectator over the years.
As Max Hastings so correctly said about Johnson - the only people who rate him are those who don't know him.
Stop doffing your cap and tugging your forelock, he's laughing at you.
I'm not a Johnson lover, I think he's a clown. What I dislike is the people who are so biased to the left that nothing they do can possibly be wrong.
All these people are as bad as each other.
The Labour party in Parliament kept banging on about patygate beause it is entirely bereft of any policies with which to attack this useless government
I'd go back to 2010 and suggest the Tories were bereft of any policies to attack Labour with. There was much they agreed with, when both parties held similar ground in the middle. It didn't do them any harm. They watched Labour implode. I suspect Labour are doing the same and watching the Tories implode. Do nothing wrong or idiotic.
It's utter shit and does nothing for the electorate, but waiting for the other to fall is quite a common tactic nowadays.
Starmer's speech today was a shopping list of things the government should be doing. I don't think an opposition at this point in an election cycle has ever presented more policy ideas. They are doing it precisely because they have been backed into a corner by people saying 'you just criticise, you have no policies' but it is astounding that this is still the narrative now when it has been completely invalidated.
What this thread demonstrates is the general public on all parts of the spectrum fail to understand how top civil servants and politicians work day to day. Having working meetings where food and drink is available wouldn't be unusual. Similarly when a party leader meets local party members I'd suggest having food and drink is normal cause of business. This would explain why both Starmer and Johnson believed they weren't guilty of any wrongdoing.
Of course, the court of public opinion argues differently, and it really does depend where you fall on the spectrum on how you determine guilt or otherwise.
Looking objectively either both are guilty are neither are. What is rather telling is this is the main domestic political issue being discussed today and not the government's latest community development Bill, or the oppositions response.
Politics is a murky world where style is clearly more relevant than substance, both to politicians, and their acolytes.
I agree with this.
I think the bad stories are the genuine boozy parties in Downing St, although I dont doubt these happened elsewhere, to happen at the heart of government is inexcusable.
I have less concerns over a birthday cake at lunch and Starmers beer, but the two are fundementally the same for me in moral terms.
https://twitter.com/RosieisaHolt/sta...98053645185033
Gove certainly hasn't been put off partying.
I see you Gove, and raise you Osborne
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitio...eorge-osbourne
I think it best to await the outcome of the Police investigation to see if there is equivalence between Starmer's and Johnson's actions.
Agreed nothing to see here, Starmer made a fuss though and it's completely backfired either way, he's gone or he's a fibber just like Boris and all the public see it the same, although some will deny this and try and say it's different, as previously went down the hang Boris route.
I don't think this has backfired on Starmer.
Chances are he isn't going to get a fine - he stated he would stand down if fined, but didn't have to, this puts additional pressure on Johnson especially if more details of parties emerge or if the photos in the Sue Grey report are particularly damning.
If he does get a fine, he'll stand down. This would ramp the pressure even more on Johnson, and Starmer gets a reputation as being honourable, and can return to front line politics at a later date.
His mistake was to call tooooo quickly for the resignation of the PM and Chancellor a the point of investigation of course the tow ae separate in some many ways .
I do think the clamour by Labour on cake gate and resignation just before the election is seen a a canny headline grab in my view it was a mistake as it lets in the critics to say is that all they got , and if one calls for the resignation due to investigation then surely one does the same ??
Bit naïve , and sadly it shows how shallow and cheap point scoring politics has become on both sides .
I can't see Johnson going at all, even if Starmer resigns. Johnson doesn't think he has done anything wrong, despite paying the fine. What we do know is that the electorate will have the final say, and Johnson may or may not be reading the mood of the country, and we'll find out soon enough.
He was under condsiderable pressure before ukraine kicked off, they were close to having enough letters of no confidence, and plenty of back bench tories were worried about the effect he was having on their chances. Several of them said they would wait to see ho the Sue Grey report panned out before deciding.
A pretty terrible local elections result will have done nothing to allay those fears.
By trying to drag Starmer into this as well, they're obviously trying to lessen the impact on Johnson. Assuming Starmer is not fined, this just gives additional ammo to those who want Johnson out if there are further things revealed by the Sue Grey report.