Train strikes

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Train strikes

Absolutely barmy :hehe:

You've accidentally posted your letter to Viz on CCMB mate.

It's a cracker isn't it, he's obviously so superior and well educated :hehe:

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Train strikes

Absolutely barmy :hehe:

You've accidentally posted your letter to Viz on CCMB mate.

It’s not barmy to ask why people vote Tory these days. Brexit? Immigration? Union bashing? I only mention those three because the Tories appear to have the debate centred on these subjects in the days leading up to a couple of by elections where they are under pressure in seats they hold.

As for dml’s claims about left wing party’s orchestrating the rail strikes, do you think Labour welcome a national rail strike on the day of the Wakefield by election?

[Ivortheengine]

Re: Train strikes

I am really amazed that the heirarchy in the railway union is letting its members go without pay on days of the strike. Money they can I’ll afford to lose, when fuel , food and energy costs are rising rapidly. What’s more, whatever percentage they get, they won’t get it back.

[JamesWales]

Re: Train strikes

It’s not barmy to ask why people vote Tory these days. Brexit? Immigration? Union bashing? I only mention those three because the Tories appear to have the debate centred on these subjects in the days leading up to a couple of by elections where they are under pressure in seats they hold.

As for dml’s claims about left wing party’s orchestrating the rail strikes, do you think Labour welcome a national rail strike on the day of the Wakefield by election?

Asking a sensible question about why people vote a certain way is of course legitimate. But not when framed in such an absurd, inaccurate and generally abusive and ignorant manner littered with falsehoods, tropes and populist rose-tinted gossip about how great the 60's were.

It would be an interesting topic to explore, I agree. Start a thread.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Train strikes

Asking a sensible question about why people vote a certain way is of course legitimate. But not when framed in such an absurd, inaccurate and generally abusive and ignorant manner littered with falsehoods, tropes and populist rose-tinted gossip about how great the 60's were.

It would be an interesting topic to explore, I agree. Start a thread.

Is that a command? :hehe:

[dml1954]

Re: Train strikes

A few points, inflation is happening and has been happening for years, certainly pre COVID. The hens are coming home roost about Brexit, as well. Network Rail made 500m last year. The rich are getting richer, and the working classes are paying for it. Inflation is brought on by Tory ineptitude and greed. Pay rises should be in line with inflation, as the products are made more and more expensive. National Rail also put their fares up by 4% this year, while staff haven't had a pay rise in 4 years.

Re the wrong side of history comment, if anyone will come out on the wrong side of history, it will be the Tories and the rich. The NR boss is on 600k a year while many staff are on under 20k a year, and are getting poorer year on year.

The gap between rich and the rest in this country is growing at an alarming rate, and if we don't stop it now, we never will. The Tories want this to happen, and they want the strike to sow division.

As for Mick Lynch, refreshing to hear someone sit so many of these politicians and "experts" down. He knows his stuff, and he also doesn't have to worry about his "progression" or the rest of the garbage the MPs and other guests think about. He's doing what he thinks is right and has the facts to back it up and the lying Tory MPs have no answer apart from personal insults.

This is all just crackers. For the last decade or so the country has had low inflation and very low interest rates, from which everyone in the country has benefitted, even those people who rely on savings rates for part of their income. Mortgages and loans have never been so cheap up until very recently. Now, mainly due to global pressures, outside the control of most Governments, a correction is taking place and inflation is temporarily high. Cue Labour and other Socialsts screaming like stuck pigs and Unions claiming 10% plus pay rises for their members. They are back in their element, having not been able to use this card for many years. Opportunist policies on the hoof I call it. Next month's fish and chip paper, as they move on to moan incessantly about something else.

[ninian opinian]

Re: Train strikes

I am really amazed that the heirarchy in the railway union is letting its members go without pay on days of the strike. Money they can I’ll afford to lose, when fuel , food and energy costs are rising rapidly. What’s more, whatever percentage they get, they won’t get it back.

Well they shows how strongly the workers feel over this issue. No one wants to lose money.

[dml1954]

Re: Train strikes

It’s not barmy to ask why people vote Tory these days. Brexit? Immigration? Union bashing? I only mention those three because the Tories appear to have the debate centred on these subjects in the days leading up to a couple of by elections where they are under pressure in seats they hold.

As for dml’s claims about left wing party’s orchestrating the rail strikes, do you think Labour welcome a national rail strike on the day of the Wakefield by election?

They would welcome a rail strike on any day. Why anyway, do most Labour supporters travel to vote by train ? :hehe:

[Feedback]

Re: Train strikes

Sorry, but there's a lot of populist left-wing tropes and inaccuracies here.

1 / The wrong side of history comment is a reference to the fact that train use has fallen off a cliff (due to covid) and will in all probability never be the same again. If people want to work from home more, the result is a declining public transport. It's one of the reasons I caution against WFH.

2 / Of course, inflation always occurs, normally at a far lower level than now however.

3 / The wealth gap depends on how you look at it, but the average wage and personal tax allowance has risen far quicker under the current administration than the last one. The top rate of tax is also higher (45% v 40%) which rather undermines your party political point about the Tories wanting the gap to grow etc. That said, the pandemic and WFH is exacerbating the wealth gap considerably.

4 / Pay shouldn't be in line with inflation, it should ideally be above it. But sometimes inflation spikes, typically due to wars or other 'acts of god' and when it's caused by that its sometimes the case that we need to ride it out. Countering it with 10% pay rises across the board will probably exacerbate the problem.

5 / I agree, Mick Lynch is impressive, as was Bob Crow, but he has a job to try and protect his members, the govt' has to try and protect the entire country, and the two don't always align. Re Brexit - the RMT were prominent leave campaigners.

6 / Network Rail is publicly owned - what they make in profit goes back into the railways. The dispute is with Train operators.

Happy to be corrected on any of that. The reality, unfortunately is that very very little of the current inflation rate is caused by UK based policy decisions and thus much of it cannot be solved in that way. Political opponents will exploit the situation, but if you want the problem solved, you have to diagnose it properly. Inflation is happening near everywhere, so clearly it isn't caused by the Tories.

Maybe the union will win. Maybe it won't, but giving the country a 10% pay rise to solve a temporary spike in inflation is not the answer, unfortunately. I wish it was, but it isn't.

I have a degree of sympathy for a lot of what you have written but the bit in bold is a little wide of the mark. Not everything that is triggering inflation is caused by Ukraine or the pandemic, and it is wrong to try and change the narrative to suggest that everything is down to external factors. It is not. This Tory government isn't absolved of all blame, and must take its (rather large) fair share.

[Feedback]

Re: Train strikes

Yeah I think that has a lot to do with it

People become more conservative as they get older because they want certainty not change. It is also true to say that by and large, you're more idealistic when you are younger so you want more radical policies rather than the status quo.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Train strikes

Asking a sensible question about why people vote a certain way is of course legitimate. But not when framed in such an absurd, inaccurate and generally abusive and ignorant manner littered with falsehoods, tropes and populist rose-tinted gossip about how great the 60's were.

It would be an interesting topic to explore, I agree. Start a thread.

For a start, I was growing up in the sixties and Doucas is right about how there were home owning families where the husband would be the only bread winner - I wouldn’t say it was common as far as home owning is concerned, but not one of the wives in the block of six houses I lived in from 1963 was in full time employment.

Is Doucas wrong to say there are more billionaires these days (I’ll also ask if there are more in poverty in this country although I know the answer)? I accept he’s got a bee in his bonnet about how all of us old fogeys are right wingers, but about seven or eight years ago I was telling my nieces and nephew that I didn’t envy them having to grow up when they were compared to when I did and, if anything, that’s truer today than it was then.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Train strikes

This is all just crackers. For the last decade or so the country has had low inflation and very low interest rates, from which everyone in the country has benefitted, even those people who rely on savings rates for part of their income. Mortgages and loans have never been so cheap up until very recently. Now, mainly due to global pressures, outside the control of most Governments, a correction is taking place and inflation is temporarily high. Cue Labour and other Socialsts screaming like stuck pigs and Unions claiming 10% plus pay rises for their members. They are back in their element, having not been able to use this card for many years. Opportunist policies on the hoof I call it. Next month's fish and chip paper, as they move on to moan incessantly about something else.

It does make a change from he should resign for having a drink and saying goodbye to someone in work for six minutes.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Train strikes

Sorry, but there's a lot of populist left-wing tropes and inaccuracies here.

1 / The wrong side of history comment is a reference to the fact that train use has fallen off a cliff (due to covid) and will in all probability never be the same again. If people want to work from home more, the result is a declining public transport. It's one of the reasons I caution against WFH.

2 / Of course, inflation always occurs, normally at a far lower level than now however.

3 / The wealth gap depends on how you look at it, but the average wage and personal tax allowance has risen far quicker under the current administration than the last one. The top rate of tax is also higher (45% v 40%) which rather undermines your party political point about the Tories wanting the gap to grow etc. That said, the pandemic and WFH is exacerbating the wealth gap considerably.

4 / Pay shouldn't be in line with inflation, it should ideally be above it. But sometimes inflation spikes, typically due to wars or other 'acts of god' and when it's caused by that its sometimes the case that we need to ride it out. Countering it with 10% pay rises across the board will probably exacerbate the problem.

5 / I agree, Mick Lynch is impressive, as was Bob Crow, but he has a job to try and protect his members, the govt' has to try and protect the entire country, and the two don't always align. Re Brexit - the RMT were prominent leave campaigners.

6 / Network Rail is publicly owned - what they make in profit goes back into the railways. The dispute is with Train operators.

Happy to be corrected on any of that. The reality, unfortunately is that very very little of the current inflation rate is caused by UK based policy decisions and thus much of it cannot be solved in that way. Political opponents will exploit the situation, but if you want the problem solved, you have to diagnose it properly. Inflation is happening near everywhere, so clearly it isn't caused by the Tories.

Maybe the union will win. Maybe it won't, but giving the country a 10% pay rise to solve a temporary spike in inflation is not the answer, unfortunately. I wish it was, but it isn't.

I dont think when people talk about the gap between rich and poor they mean the difference between someone earning 20k and 80k so tax brackets and personal allowances don't really come into the conversation. People didn't mind relative I equality when the tide was rising all ships, unfortunately the big ships are still rising and the small ones are beached.

[ninian opinian]

Re: Train strikes

I have a degree of sympathy for a lot of what you have written but the bit in bold is a little wide of the mark. Not everything that is triggering inflation is caused by Ukraine or the pandemic, and it is wrong to try and change the narrative to suggest that everything is down to external factors. It is not. This Tory government isn't absolved of all blame, and must take its (rather large) fair share.

No your right. The elephant in the room making all us working class worse off is Brexit https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-wi...-says-12638190.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Train strikes

They would welcome a rail strike on any day. Why anyway, do most Labour supporters travel to vote by train ? :hehe:

Talk about naive! Tomorrow, Labour need to get anything from 1,500 to 3,000 people who did not vote for them in 2019 in Wakefield to do so this time - do you really think that “organising” a national rail strike is a good way to do that? Maybe that’s why Labour are losing General Elections - they should organise a General Strike for the one in 2024 :hehe: