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Do you think that if the leader of the SNP was male they'd get as many ad hominem attacks?
This is a strange situation. A large majority of the population have rePEATEDLY voted in the SNP, who have gone on to make an absolute pigs ear of governing Scotland. Health, Education, transport - it's all a complete shambles, and all running at a huge deficit. It is only the UK Government that is bailing them out. So what happens if they go independent, and EVERYTHING has to come through England to get there? There's enough problems with Northern Ireland, without adding to the mix. But all this banging on the independence drum tends to hide the debacle they have made of managing Scotland. And if we're honest, things are very similar here in Wales.
As much as we like the idea of independence, neither Scotland nor Wales could afford to maintain their current living standards, and people would start to leave. Let's be fair - they already do. Now imagine it much worse. Close to 50% of Welsh jobs are state funded - what happens to those? And who pays for them?
From what i’ve read, the Scots would only be using the SNP as the force to gain independence. Once they gained it, the SNP would be voted out. Not sure who they’d vote in to pick up the batten though.
On a side note, you’ve made it sound as though Scotland and us should just be called Northern England and Eastern England. 😂
I hope Ms. Sturgeon doesn't make the same mistake as David Cameron did with the Brexit referendum. She needs to set a minimum of two-thirds majority for independence*. A 51:49 result would be a disaster, with the country split down the middle with animosity for years to come.
*She won't of course as the opinion polls show it will be a very close run thing.
For all the infantile name calling in the original post, Sturgeon is probably the most effective and successful politician in the UK. It is certainly ironic that the Leader of the Party North Cardiff Blue seems to hold most dear is her most effective recruitment Sergeant.
On the once in a generation point, there is a legitimate challenge that the Brexit vote of a pro-EU Scotland changed the dynamic. That said, the things that made it fail in the first place have not gone away. I also think the Brexit situation will make it fall on its face. A customs and people border with England, really?
The EU has probably had enough of the UK and would rather get on with its own challenges without opening up something with a fledgling state. My guess is that Moldova and Albania would be quicker to the pass than Scotland.
“Once in a generation” is just a catchphrase though, there’s no binding agreement that means Scotland needs to wait 20 years between votes. If the result next year is Independence then surely it was the right time to hold a vote as enough time had past that a considerable portion of the population had changed their mind and wanted change.
As for a vote on the Senedd, there was an Abolish the Welsh Assembly party that won no seats and got a tiny percentage of the vote, ~3% if I recall.
I think Quebec have voted against independence from Canada
I don't really understand some of the hostile stuff toward the SNP in this thread, there's been huge upheaval since the 2014 referendum which has rendered some of the "No" campaign's main arguments obsolete, if they want another referendum let them have it
I cant listen to the lady ..
She us worse than Boris in debt every year ,scandals , poor management of thier government..
What better tactic to adopt than Boris's make headlines elsewhere about crap and ingore domestic issues , now Covid has gone First Minsters are anonymous..
I've read somewhere that if the vote goes ahead then the unionists will, as a protest, encourage their supporters not to vote anyway. Thus making the independence victory irrelevant.
Whether the vote will be legally binding has yet to be decided. Sturgeon needs the go ahead from Westminster (which she probably won't get) but will try to get that through the Supreme Court.
A pleasure to agree with you Cyril!
I am no fan of the SNP; they talk absolute bollocks about Westminster - their tone towards it is far worse than even UKIPs was toward the EU and they have a remarkable range of powers to fix problems they blame on someone else.
But...she's a fine politician, partly to fool enough people about the reality of the above situation.
That said, I get the arguments for Scotland leaving and some stack up, emotionally if thats your identity etc. I firmly hope they stay though, and I think they will when the reality of campaigning kicks in
“Once in a generation” they said, then when the answer was No, they started another campaign up and said " we need another vote when we can "
so the SNP campaign for independence and when the public vote no, they want another vote
Might aswell have on the ballot paper 4 options
YES
YES
NO, but we will continue voting till its YES
YES
Totally agree with you. The political landscape of the UK is unrecognisable from 2014. Labour has no mandate in Scotland. We've left the EU. NI is a mess. We have an English Nationalist Prime Minister and government.
Welsh Labour will not be able to ally themselves to a Starmeresque PLP (nor should they) if it's Tory-Lite. I really don't know how Welsh people can support this current crop of Conservatives and government as they hold us (Wales) in complete contempt. Starmer campaigning for a UK will just backfire in Wales and NI as it already has in Scotland.
I think it's perfectly reasonable for Scotland to have another vote. There shouldn't be any limit on the number of times. Anyone who argues against this argues against democracy itself. More voting is a good thing. More people voting is a good thing.
The Sennedd should have greater power. Westminster's style of government is ancient. Unfit for purpose. Invoking Henry VIII powers says all you need to know about its ability to support and respect the people who vote for our MPs. Don't even get me started on the The Lords.
Cyril makes great point about the border issues and the EU's attitude towards us. However, it's much more likely that in order to keep the UK in one piece, we'll have to embrace EU membership again. In a lot of respects, it would solve many problems (providing Cardiff, Edinburgh and Belfast keep their national governments).
Yes, the 'Abolish the Welsh Assembly Party' made themselves look right dicks as does anyone who wants to weaken the democracy of their country, speaks ill if the Senedd or even actively supports its abolition.
I've said many times, I'm not into Nationalism. I've now had enough of flags and anthems. I'm much more concerned about people's power to decide for themselves and for that reason independence appeals. Independence doesn't mean nationalism. F*ck it. I'd even like to see an independent Grangetown!
What the feck are Welsh speaking Welsh people doing voting Conservative?
It's like giving your horrible uncle a shotgun then crying like a baby when he shoots you up the arse
they resolved the situation, they vote NO, what you mean is resolve the situation in a way the SNP want it resolved
I guess its the tag line " once in a lifetime " giving the impression the public had one shot at it " in their lifetime ", little did they know it meant " a chance to vote the way we want you to, incase you dont get it, thats YES, if we dont get the vote we want, we keep on voting till we do " , easy mistake to make though
The Brexit result was the last straw for the Scots. English Nationalism prevailed. I’m not for the break up of the UK but if I was Scottish I’d definitely want it and I can’t see how the Welsh can continue to hang onto England if it keeps voting for the unhinged lunacy of the current Tory/UKIP freaks.